As the hysterical left weep into their lattes...

@maddy

You should take off your blinkers and see the vitriol which has been posted every day to people who have supported Remain.

And you think this hasn't been divisive?

@Elegran

But we really aren't all in this together. I don't expect you to understand that either. I really don't want to adopt the values of people who vote for 'sovereignty', 'taking back control', rejoicing that immigrants will have to go back home and don't even have a plan for the future.

My country has become very ugly.

Maggiemaybe There is no guarantee that EU funding would have still flowed into the UK if we were to remain in the union. With more poor countries joining funds would be diverted to raise standards there, effectively dumbing down living standards throughout Europe. Eastern Europe is much poorer and is needed to act as a barrier to any Russian expansion plans so it is fairly apparent that major funding will be directed that way to keep them sweet. Why would EU admit such poor countries if that were not the case?

JCB cut 500 jobs last year and said that global trading was "tough" and blamed some of it on the strong pound. A weak pound will suit them.

Thank you thatbags for posting an article from the eminently sensible Libby Purves. I so agree, the vitriolic comments on the internet have been a disgrace to this nation. They have been posted by the liberal, elitist left, whether in the arts or not. Many of them show a very poor understanding of the real issues which have been ignored by the political elite for far too long. Time for a wake up call, it came on Thursday, now we have to get on with it, without whining and name calling. Frankly I think that's childish.

@Alea

I'm afraid I disagree with you. To me, it's very divisive. The whole nasty campaign has let loads out of Pandora's Box. I realise now that half the country doesn't have the same core values as I do and I think that is being felt on both sides. I really feel that this is about to become a darker, pettier and more mean-spirited country.

PS. But I didn't really expect people to understand.

^"Wasn't the whole point of the EU that there were no more wars in Europe, Elegran?
Do you really think we ought to go back to those days?"^ Where did I say I wanted to go back to war, DJ? but I do want to go back to the spirit of "all in this together because it threatens us all and we all need to overcome it"

"We shall survive? Our children and grandchildren expect more than that bunker mentality." The first necessity is to avoid accepting that we will NOT survive. That is not a bunker mentality, that is to get the adrenaline going to succeed instead of waiting for defeat.

This is the biggest challenge the country has faced since 1945. Leave or remain, it has become obvious that a great deal of consultation, planning and sheer bloody hard graft is going to be needed. We are capable of producing it.

@Elegran

Do you think you might have felt differently if you hadn't had a common enemy and you'd felt that there was a division between you and your own compatriots?

I, too, am utterly bewildered by the triumphant note at the understandable fear of so many and the understandable despair of others who are looking at their future thrown into disarray (some stories in this thread).

I have two friends (both gentle, kind incredibly hardworking considerate people) who have lived in the UK for decades on EU passports. Now they are looking with great fear at their homes and businesses. They are very depressed indeed.

Like it or not they feel that the tone of the Brexit debate appears to have been very hostile to people like them who are immigrants. They feel unwanted.

One had to go to the Director of her company with the news that the bill (in Euros) for services (they are a language school for business people) purchased in Germany had just risen markedly because the value of the pound has fallen so badly against the Euro. On projected rising costs v income it looks as if 10 staff in this little company will have to be made redundant.

You see, it is not a big multi national company like Bamford/JCB with manufacturing bases in America (Savannah), Europe (Germany) and S America (Brazil) with a diverse income stream in as well as the UK. It is just a small, English company...and relies on immigrants for their business and their diverse language skills.

He said he did not think of that when he voted Brexit. He did not want to leave Europe..just teach 'the elite government" a lesson and get the £350 million a week he'd been told had been sent to Brussels into the NHS. By then he knew that there never had been £350 million a week sent to Brussels and therefore we did not and will not have it to put into the NHS. Even less likely with tax revenues likely to fall. Nor had he understood, until after he had voted that the touted Australian points system of immigration has resulted in twice the number of immigrants per head of population in Australia as the free borders movement in the EU. He feels conned not triumphant as the realities hit home.

My cousin (in Ireland) is feeling cheerful as they have just won a multi million Euro contract from an American consortium who'd been holding off on a decision as to whether to award it to a British Company or an Irish one (they wanted an English speaking base in the EU to maximise their trading advantages). Not much point in awarding it to Britian as we are leaving the EU.

I'd say that those who voted Remain have good reason to cry into their coffee (whether instant or otherwise). I'd say those who voted Leave have got reason to as well.

I don't mean to divert from the original article ThatBags but I did find the contrast interesting.

obieone, I shop in one town , too far to walk twenty miles to the next one. I mix with like minded people, I refer to them as human beings .

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wrinklies-have-well-and-truly-stitched-us-up-qfz509cz8?shareToken=f4377967bf87e4c742df1feec85f06f6
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ragtag-rebels-who-had-nothing-left-to-lose-lvwnsdwkv?shareToken=11737486c507875b9362b2fb8cab2d4b
I don't know if this will work but these were on opposite pages of the times on Friday and I've sent them to friends abroad who have been baffled by the whole thing.

So the remainers blame the racists, the xenophobes, the uneducated and the elderly. Maybe it's time to stop this. It reminds me of a child throwing a tantrum because someone took the chocolate cake without seeing that there was a bigger one one the next table. They gave to mature enough to be able to look around and see a global perspective. It might mean a short walk, but if they want the bigger cake, stop the tantrum and take the walk.

I don't actually see this as divisive and tend to echo what Elegran said.
Libby Purves, like all good journalists has chosen a snappy headline, but that doesn't stigmatise all the Remain voters who are now facing the economic and social mess which has resulted. But yes, there has been international cooperation, crossover, freedom of movement since the days of Holbein's portrait of Henry VIII.
If the decision has to stand, there is going to be a heck of a lot of hard work and skill involved in seeing us through the process. Also leadership, ( sadly absent ) if the aftershock is not to be more damaging than the earthquake.

Alea, it must take obieone a long time to do her shopping.

Heaping opprobrium on ALL who voted to leave or ALL who want to remain won't achieve anything, it is let-it-all-hang-out-and-blame-someone. There were many different reasone to vote either in or out. It is just not true that this is a country of racists and xenophobists. It is a country where many are genuinely afraid for their future in a potential recession, and simultaneously many are coming here because they are even more afraid in their own country. Add in that the favourite scapegoat for any unpopular regulation has been the EU and OF COURSE there is friction.

Yes, there are some dyed-in-the-wool xenophobes - but not half the population.

Equally, there are those who make a very good living as a result of the connection with the EU - but not half the population.

Throwing blame and accusations backwards and forwards doesn't mend the growing split in the social fabric. It makes it worse.

Quite right of thatbags to remind everyone that abuse should not be part of the democratic process. It has been a truly terrible weekend. It started for my dear OH and I with our daughter, distraught and terrified, demanding to know which way we had voted.In fact we had worked out that, for us, 'Remain' was a vote for self interest concering the OH's imminent retirement and pension, but for principles concerning the country:- sovereignity, autonomy, the economy and border controls 'Leave' was probably preferable. He voted in and I voted out. Neither of us reproached the other or would have thought of doing anything to hinder or criticise the democratic process. it was all very good humoured and civilised.

However, our DD had been wound up by the intergenerational envy mob and persuaded by peers and left orientated Facebook friends that her job was now on the line, that she could no longer work in Europe and that everyone who voted 'Leave' was an old, selfish racist who had destroyed her future.

I deprecate the present intemperate tone of British political debate and long for the old days when it was simply bad manners to raise religion or politics in public as the tacit understanding was that people differed and that was perfectly acceptable when all adults possessed a single vote in a secret ballot.

Brilliant!! Fed up with being verbally abusedfor the way I chose to vote!!!

Same here, Millbrook. The North East England leave vote is beyond my comprehension. I love the area and don't want to see it suffer. They have benefited from so much EU that is now in jeopardy, including this:

nelep.co.uk/funding/european-funding/

It'd be reassuring to think our central government will do as much, but I can't see it happening. However determined they are.

There was an interview on TV this morning with a Cornish businesswoman not at all worried about funding from the EU being lost, because she has a letter signed by Gove and Johnson guaranteeing that the government will provide it I do hope those who actually have the authority to make such guarantees are aware.

Its not all about us is it?

This divide is being felt everywhere now all EU areas and in America where some people shout 'racist' and enjoy their moral superiority and do not recognise their own rather fascist view that some people are not fit to have the vote as not educated enough etc.

It has highlighted the issues and if politicians can't cope with resolving them, then they need to go, plenty more people waiting in the wings with fresh ideas.

Only time will tell if we were wise to vote Brexit, I voted out for reasons not at all connected with race. Far more to do with democracy and the interference of the EU in things I hold dear, like alternative medicines and the dreaded TTIP. I also resented Obama turning up to threaten us with his 'back of the queue' rhetoric. He really needs to go home and sort the gun laws !!

Other media channels have a far more inspiring view of what has occurred, it isn't perfect but it is a far better wake up call than civil war might be.

Let's get on with sorting things out. The only loser so far is democracy, people wanting second referendums and deciding that Corbyn is not a winning leader etc. He was voted in by the membership for goodness sake.

The EU is failing and will fail, we were half-hearted about it anyway we cherry picked the bits we wanted and now some pretend it is heaven on earth. It certainly isn't that it is a conduit to big corporations who want to rule the world. Good for us we voted out.

I think most people only chat with like-minded people. They miss out
"Grannies/eggs/sucking/teaching " - make a well known saying out of these!
I purposely shop for instance, in a mix of towns of various social mix and status from each other
A person can't always shop in Harvey Nicks! Although personally I find the John Lewis Partnership serves me very well
You couldn't make this up obieone!!!
.

We did rise after the war Elegran, we voted for a labour government who brought in the NHS

Lefties 'weeping into their lattes' profoundly offensive and classist -I am surprised your comments were not moderated -not ok and I am shocked to read such a bigoted comment on grans net.

I do agree that there is a large degree of over-reaction and breast beating that I would see as unnecessary. As Elegran says, the country has been through a lot worse.

Stay calm and carry on is the thing to do I feel. It is a wake up call to our government and the leaders of Europe that there are people who are not happy with things as they stand.

The fact that Juncker snapped "No" and stormed out when asked if Thursday's vote might trigger the break-up of the EU indicates very clearly to me that the people at the top of the EU are arrogant and unwilling to listen; just as the British government failed to hear the concerns of those in our society who are disadvantaged. How much better it would have been to hear a statesmanlike measured response with proper reasoning behind it.

Wasn't the whole point of the EU that there were no more wars in Europe, Elegran?
Do you really think we ought to go back to those days?
We shall survive? Our children and grandchildren expect more than that bunker mentality.