Vote on Trident

'Is anyone else having problems on GN recently? Last few days, my PC keeps dropping (infuriating) have to keep restarting it. But not on any other applications. Haven’t got time to run any checks at the moment as carpets being cleaned (stuff everywhere) and packing for hols. Be interesting to know if it’s just me'..same here [and I think someone else mentioned it also]. But my pc is playing up in general at the moment...worse on gransnet though].When I was in CND and the WDC we were all sure our phones were being tapped ; maybe we're being watched...

It is a waste of money trisher, but the majority feel safer with than without

Ooh Tegan! That’s better than my Blue Peter badge! In an ideal world, wouldn’t multilateral disarmament be wonderful. Sadly, it’s not. We will have to keep Trident, I imagine, as no alternative right now. So better than nothing. We need something to show credibility for NATO membership. Even though our piddling few is no match for the US weaponry, it’s still like a Mexican standoff. Would anyone risk it. We can’t be left undefended. I imagine the vote will be to keep it. And I have to agree, as things stand.

Is anyone else having problems on GN recently? Last few days, my PC keeps dropping (infuriating) have to keep restarting it. But not on any other applications. Haven’t got time to run any checks at the moment as carpets being cleaned (stuff everywhere) and packing for hols. Be interesting to know if it’s just me.

But the point about Trident is it is neither a useful deterrent or an effective weapon. It depends on out dated technology and a delivery system that has been superseded. So we are effectively pouring money down the drain. Think of it like this if someone had given you a Walkman in the 1980s you would have been cutting edge, by the 90's you would have been wondering about changing it and today you would have dumped it and been downloading music. Military experts say the submarines delivering Trident are now traceable and can be intercepted. They are as my gran used to say "neither use nor ornament"

My badge [I keep it above my desk ]..

My daughter was telling me about the 'Hiroshima Shadows' the other day [something I'd never heard of before]. Yes, I pray for multilateral disarmament too. What a world we live in.

I joined CND when very young, my father took me to see a private film showing of the aftermath of bombing Hiroshema , that made my decision.

The question is, are we safer without nuclear warfare even thought there are countries which will not give them up, worrying when one thinks of Russia and America and we have always allowed America to use this country as they choose

I don't think having trident will protect us from war between these two countries and now we have North Korea to think about.

How I pray for multi disarmament

Do some of you remember the film Crocodile Dundee. The scene wher the would be attacker flashed his knife at Crocodile. Crocodile laughed and said: call that a knife ( then produces the most humongous knife, and said: that's what you call a knife.
All tyrants and dictators are cowards, and if they know that you can hurt them more than they can hurt you, job done.

I agree also. Was very much involved with CND in my younger days but then joined the World Disarmament Campaign which was multilateral. I realised that I was in CND out of fear, and then someone said that, to not have a nuclear deterrent was like 'sitting naked round the bargaining table', which changed my viewpoint.

Baffled how this has become a Owen Smith discussion

Far more important , in my opinion, do we support multi disarmament or unilateral disarmament

Brave of you roses. I was keeping quiet. Of course nuclear weapons are awful but the main point about them is not using them but looking as though we might. If only we lived in a lovely fair world where everyone shared the same ideal beliefs. Sadly we don't.

Am with Owen Smith on this , and many other MP's on both sides if the House.Having a nuclear deterrent is of great importance to us.

Owen Smith, for one, seems to blow with the wind.

Can't decide if I am flattered because I obviously still have a young attitude and approach to things or insulted because I haven't grown up. But then looking at Smith and Eagle as my kids used to say when they were feeling miffed, "I never want to grow up to be like you!"

Owen Smith confirmed he had been a member of CND but that was when he was a teenager and he's "grown up" now and so his adult sensibilities led him to support Trident. Is he suggesting that these people, whose letter was printed in the Guardian on Saturday, have not "grown up"?

"This government’s national security strategy has identified terrorism, climate change, pandemics and cyber warfare as the tier-one threats we face today. Not only does Trident have nothing to offer in countering those threats, it sucks vast amounts of money away from dealing with them. Expert evidence indicates that the huge submarines that carry the nuclear weapons can be rendered redundant by cyber-attack and detected and targeted via new underwater drone technology.

"These weapons hail from a bygone age. Senior figures from the armed forces describe them as militarily useless. Addressing 21st-century security challenges requires a rational and practical approach, not one based on misplaced notions that having Trident makes us a great power and enables us “to punch above our weight”. Spending vast amounts on redundant technology to retain a cold war totem make us look antiquated and out of touch with the reality of the world today. We urge MPs to vote against Trident replacement.
Caroline Lucas Chair, Parliamentary CND
Diane Abbott Shadow health secretary
Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru leader
Nicola Sturgeon First minister of Scotland
Mark Serwotka PCS union general secretary
Major General Patrick Cordingley

Owen Smith, interviewed on Sky News this morning, confirmed that he would be voting to keep Trident - as will Angela Eagle and most of the Labour MPs. There's no point e mailing my MP - she is to the right of the party, anti-Corbyn and votes to retain Trident.

Sorry, that should have been waste of money, not time. Yet another senior moment

Please, would those of you who think it's a waste of time consider emailing your MPs to say so? Thank you

The mines went, the steel industry has gone, both meant communities were devastated.I sympathise with the people of Faslane, but I can't see that the existence of such an expensive, outdated and dangerous weapon can be justified because some people would lose their livelihood.

This is not the first time I've said this, but I will say it again. If/when Faslane has an accident or is attacked, 2 of my DGC (and you, Thingmajig ) will die straight away. 3 more will die shortly afterwards. The other 2 may be all right, depending on the wind direction. I would like to ask GNers from other parts of the country if they would like to have the biggest dump of nuclear weapons in Europe to be 25 miles from their town or city (Glasgow is the biggest centre of population in Scotland). You may or may not be aware that these nuclear weapons are moved regularly by road to and from Aldermaston and so you and your DGC may not be as far away from them as you think...

Thingmajig, as you say, you can get to Glasgow and so, presumably, Glaswegians in search of a quieter place to live (and spend money) can get to you, and just possibly they might be more inclined to do so if Trident was not there. When smoking started to become less common, tobacco workers were put out of work, but that didn't mean that we all had to start smoking to keep them in a job. I hope that when Trident is removed from Scotland (and, I hope, from everywhere) some of the money we save can be used to find new jobs for those dependent on the base. Faslane will still find a naval purpose of some sort, I am quite sure.

Nuclear weapons will not protect us from "Putin on the loose" - and anyway, would anyone seriously suggest nuking Moscow? They are of no use against the threat we do face - terrorism. Do you really think that it is impossible for IS to mount a suicide attack on Faslane or on one of the road convoys?

Well, I live in the town a couple of miles up the road from Faslane and it's largely supported by the base and all it's staff living here and spending money. While we are an easy commute by road and train to Glasgow we would still reel from the loss of the base, and maybe not recover.

DH (ex-Danish navy) says now is not the time to get rid of Trident with Putin on the loose.

Waste of Money (come on someone disagree, we can't have a thread where we all agree, can we?)

A waste of money.

Waste of money.

Yes presumably if the Union becomes a Federal State, then this would be a major issue, given that Scotland is dead against it.