The New Cabinet

Rather than seeing it as 'a lot more expensive', what happens dd if we think of it as greater investment in countries such as Germany? I think this would tell us we get incredible value for money and provide a good argument for increased funding by, for instance ring fencing NI and continuing it through life including on pensioner income.

Germans also pay 3% for unemployment insurance and another (approximately) 9% for pensions contributions. Therefore, they pay much more than we do in the UK for benefits provided by NI, but get more back.

The French pay 5.25% of income, capital and winnings, but this doesn't cover the whole cost, so most people also have private health insurance to cover the gap.

If we want more, we're going to have to pay for it one way or other.

Germany has a shortage of doctors.

www.wsj.com/articles/germany-seeks-foreign-cure-for-its-doctor-shortage-1437434991

How's the quality? It isn't just about money. I think many would pay more in the UK, particularly if it was a dedicated insurance.

I've just looked it up. Employees pay 7.3% of their salary and the employers pay another 7.3%. On top of that, there's 2.2% for long-term care. Pensioners pay the same rate out of their pensions and the pensions insurance company pays the same amount. It's a lot more expensive.

Doesn't the German system work out more expensive than the NHS though?
All models of health care that involve a combination of private and public are problematic. The system in Australia seems to be chaotic with a limited NHS for poorer people and many ordinary middle class people playing very high insurance.

So DJ what is the way forward for the NHS?

I think you'll find that one big difference between Germany (and other countries) and the UK regarding healthcare finance is that pensioners continue to pay health insurance. Politicians know that and it will be interesting to see if they're brave enough to go down that route.

Jane10I can't say how much it costs but it is paid by the worker and the employer. Under a certain income, paying is compulsory, better earners can pay if they want to and most do. But it is greater percentage of your salary/wages than National Insurance and is only for health. Its not cheap but children are free.

Doctors are normal students and do 4 years in hospital after leaving uni. then they usually specialise and become consultants. these consultants set up their own practices so you don't usually go to a hospital unless for operations or Cancer treatment.
e.g.With a very bad sore throat or severe earrache you go straight away to an Ear,Nose and Throat doctor.
The consulatant exmaines you and tells you immediately what he has seen on his screen. No waiting for results to come in unless a biopsiy has been taken..
All the finances are in the hands of several Krankenkasse, but the government makes the laws governing them and what
they provide and what is necessary health care.

I am reading about Europe pre-WW1 at the moment. Bismarck introduced the first welfare state in Europe duri g the 1880a. This included unemployment insurance and old age pensions - so I think Germany has led the way in welfare state issues.

Of course it can't survive as it is. Unless, of course, we spend as much money on it as other EU countries, which is what Brexit has promised. Oh, I forgot, they lied.
Sitting here typing this with a cast and a sling on my arm, both courtesy of the NHS.

MargaretX sounds good. How much does it cost if you don't mind me asking?

Or c) both the above

I don't think our NHS can survive in its present form either.

A while ago whitewave did some excellent research into how other European countries fund their health care and, I don't see any alternative to change unless we can a) cut demand or b) be prepared to pay much more in tax to fund the NHS.

d-jen I spent more years of my life being treated by the NHS and I prefer a private system anytime. We really get treated when we need it, and most often straightaway, ring up and you have an appointment in the morning, and if in danger then you are soon in hospital or the doc calls to see you at home.
And there is money over for refugees and tourists.

All private systems are not like the american one. Most in Europe function very well indeed.
The NHS will not go back to how it was at the beginning when everyone was so proud of it.

act.sumofus.org/go/348668?t=5&akid=20866.8185493.rgJsE3

5 of the top 6 members of the cabinet have links to private health companies which stand to benefit from the breakup of the NHS.

Who?

I think you will find he will be better than you think

Yes I do Anniebach

BBbevan, do you mean Bevan as in Nye Bevan

Sorry, meant do not live here.

Like you said, you do not live. You obviously do not understand about the NHS either. It is not there to make a profit out of, but to provide care at the point of need.
Many GPs are fed up of being self employed. They want to become salaried, which is why there are not enough wanting to be partners.

I can't sign as i don't live in the Uk but I think it is a waste of time. Mrs May is tough and won't be moved by a petition.

I think it is idealist not expecting anyone to make a profit out of it. Profit is the main reason for doing or manufacturing anything. Its like wanting to go back to the days when the GP counted out the penicillin tablets into a brown bottle.
I think all doctors should be self employed and able to decide how many patients they can deal with and not be forced to work such long hours.

Thanks, Trisher. Knew someone would be able to do it.
2000 short of 200,000.