Social mobility and grammar schools

Someone once said you needed just one teacher to light the light and then you can make immense progress.
In my grammar school we were taught by dowdy spinsters and the lessons were boring. But we had huge sports grounds and tennis courts and the name was snough to get a job interview afterwards.

When you are coaching a young person you sometimes get the chance to really interest them in the subject and there are several people I coached in my town who went on to specialise in English in their Abitur (leaving certificate) at 18.

I'm not sure about rude, but a 'left wing nazi' sounds like an oxymoron.

I agree with you, gettingonabit, about instrumental lessons. It was the first thing which had to go (for my children) when I lost my job. The instruments themselves had been expensive.

I charge £30 an hour for private GCSE tuition, which is beyond most people. I try to give discounts if I know that a family is struggling, but I'm not a charity and rely on tuition for my own income. I have pupils from all sorts of schools - comprehensive, grammar and independent.

My rate is towards the top of the range for my area, but tutors in London can earn £60 or £70 an hour for coaching towards entrance exams for private schools and the partially selective state schools.

I was quoting Iam64 btw.

"Left wing nazi's - how very rude !"

Sorry. But that sounds so sniffy!

£20 is a sizeable sum for many people, particularly if it's a regular spend.

I teach piano and I often wonder how many youngsters miss out on instrumental lessons due to lack of funds. There is certainly an "us" and "them" vibe in education these days. Grammar Schools worked, to some extent in the past to address social mobility but now? No, I don't think so.

I was GS educated and I found the system narrow and uninspiring. The teaching was poor, depending on rote learning and regurgitation of remembered facts. Some pupils thrived; many did not.

Nowadays I think teaching is much better; more inspirational and targeted at the needs of the individual student (within the confines of the system). I think students have to engage in their learning far more effectively; in my day all you had to do was perform well on the day of the exam, having stayed up all night to cram.

Im glad I'm in Wales, where a return to the GS is highly unlikely (at present and under our present Govt, at least.).

Mind you, we have Welsh Medium Education, which is another can of worms....

Left wing nazi's - how very rude ! I'm glad you didn't teach me, my children or anyone I love.

Sarahc446655 - I am truly amazed that you have never heard of people protesting about the size of classes. One of our children was in a class of 41 in her last year at primary school. Our County Council had the worst pupil teacher ratios in England, This may have been because none of the Tory councillors on the education committee sent their own children to county schools.

Not only did we complain, we campaigned and eventually booted out the Tories. When the Liberals took control of the county they invested in our schools and made a huge difference,

You don't have to be "left wing nazi" - whatever that is - to want all children to have the best oossible chance of a good education.

sarah either you have a short memory or you haven't been paying attention. Primary school classes used to be much larger- 40+ was common. The Blair government limited numbers to 30, this was dropped by the coalition gov, but is part of the Labour party policy. labourlist.org/2015/02/primary-school-class-sizes-to-be-capped-at-30-under-labour/
Many of us have campaigned for smaller classes for donkeys years. Yes it is a left-wing policy but obviously one you agree with.
The conservatives couldn't keep it up because Gove pledged too much cash to Free schools.

£20 a week may be a measly sum to you Sarah, not to parents on the minimum wage, zero hour contracts , unemployment benefit , disability benefit or paying high rent

Being poor does not mean not working hard or not wanting the best for their children

We are very fortunate with the teaching staff at our comprehensive , they work lunch hour and after work for not a penny, not all teachers are money grabbers , they care for the children not grabbing a measly £20

Wanting fairness for ALL children has nothing to do with being left wing , it comes naturally to many

As far is Private Tuition goes - it's not privileged or glamourous its usually a measly £20 per week for an hour of extra tuition. ( I used to provide the service).

I think these left wing nazis should stop hating people who work hard and want the best for their children.

Get the politics out of education - every child needs the best there is regardless of where it comes from or how much. How comes people care so much about education that no-one in my living memory (and as a teacher) has ever protested about the size of classes in most schools. Is it because it's easier to join the national band-wagon of mono-thought.

We have no grammer schools in Wales, hope it stays this way, depends on which party has the majority in the assembly, if it stays labour we are safe

I do actually wonder how much difference they would actually make. The ones where my DD lives have a lot of children who go to independent prep schools which cram for the 11+. As I said upthread, some children in my GD's primary school have three years of private tuition.
The local secondary schools all do very well and send a lot of children on to university.
The proportion of children on Free School Meals that get into grammar school is tiny so not sure they help social mobility.
I think it is all wrong, would be a dreadful waste of money and would be horrified to see more of them, but I don't think good comprehensives will necessarily have much to fear.

Margaret I do remember when Emilia Fox said how difficult it is to get into acting if you have parents in the profession - it is a real handicap!

Really Emilia? - not half as difficult as the many extremely talented unknowns from ordinary and even poor backgrounds whose parents do not have contacts in the business or a cushion of wealth for the aspiring actor to fall back on.
The same seems to happen in politics where nepotism seems to rule - in the UK at least.

*MargaretX

Somehow you always misunderstand me.
Well, not intentionally or unkindly I hope! and as I don't very often comment on your posts I am

but when you say:
nothing's changed. if you have parents with contacts you're OK.
I just pointed out that some people manage to get apprenticeships without parents who network and always have done.
Although I do know parents who did network their associates to try help their DC though.

Teresa May has now apparently stated her intention to "bring back grammar schools". Why is the announcement not worded as "bring back secondary moderns?" Yet another woeful example of simplistic populism.

Jalima -Germany is crammed full of apprentices who manage without parents' contacts. We were discussing the GDR and the time when I left school. Contacts definitely helped then.
And they do now, if the truth be known.

Somehow you always misunderstand me. If I say something negative you assume that is my view or opinion. I see what is wrong with the system and mention it but do not condone it.
It could be that that is the German way of discussion. facing facts!

Ooops! You're right. I was in a hurry when I wrote that post. It was a long time ago, but I do remember the 15-20% figure - it might have been staff costs. Whatever it was, I remember thinking it seemed a high figure.

Healthcare assistants hand out food...

www.cuh.org.uk/corporate-information/working-for-us/healthcare-support-workers/what-will-i-do/healthcare-assistants

I'm not an expert on NHS roles, but I think ward assistants do filing and make sure there enough bandages, etc.

Um, I don't think you mean "turnover" Daphnedil... That would be all the money that goes through their books in a year!
Sorry got muddled about the job titles. However don't ward assistants give out food to patients? Interesting to hear that some Trusts don't employ directly durhamjen.

I remember listening to somebody years ago (sorry, can't remember which company - it could have been M&S) claiming that 15-20% of company turnover should be spent on training and upskilling. I bet they don't spend anywhere near that amount now.

@dj

Yes, I know that's happening. It's been happening in schools for years.

The NHS spends a fortune on training staff, but many of them don't stay, so the NHS doesn't benefit, or the service is outsourced to private providers, who don't spend money on training. That's partly why nursing degrees are no longer financed by the NHS.

The compulsory levy is a way of getting some of the big /health anciliary providers to pay. However, you can bet anything that they'll find some way of squirming out of it. An organisation acting only as an employment agency won't have to pay, as far as I can see.

However, there are still some healthcare and ward assistant jobs provided by hospitals. It actually seems unfair that the NHS has to pay for the training, while agencies will profit. Presumably people will have to fund their own training when the NHS disappears.

nhap.org/down-skilling-staff-is-part-of-the-privatisation-agenda/

There is going to be, although only big employers will pay it.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/apprenticeship-levy/apprenticeship-levy

There still needs to be extra funding, because it's not only big employers who will benefit.

My son went to a talk by the one of the big names in Nissan. Nissan is spending some of its money plus grants from the government and EU on training. The vision was to create an engineering hot spot in the North East. Small employers benefit from the Nissan training, but they shouldn't have to be providing it all.

When a whole industry goes, as with steel, finance for training for new skills needs to come from government. The UK is light years behind countries such as Germany. The fear is that the UK doesn't have a long-term strategy and isn't committed to financing. The UK just doesn't seem to realise that if it wants to be a first-class, forward thinking economy, it needs to invest in skills.

Whether money comes from the EU or government doesn't matter. The point is that the money is needed and the British government seems to have other priorities (mainly concerned with winning votes). One advantage of an EU apprenticeship is that it's valid throughout the EU, so a British trained worker would have the option of moving to a higher paying EU country.

Sorry daphne I meant a statutory levy.

I think Jess meant healthcare assistants, who are employed directly by hospitals. There is an apprenticeship scheme for them. They can then go on to work for a GP practice, a company or whoever once they've qualified.

Ward assistants have nothing to do with patient care. I've just looked at a couple of my local hospitals and they have vacancies for directly employed ward assistants, admittedly at just above minimum wage, but they will have holiday, sickness and maternity pay, a pension scheme and opportunities for further training.

Agencies are filling in the gaps, because hospitals are struggling with their budgets to employ permanent staff.