Ban on surgery for patients who are overweight or who smoke?

Yes people who are overweight should have some self discipline and lose weight. That may sound harsh but my goodness there are a great many fat people around and those include children. Greed has consequences, gluttony is awful and the bottom line is just that - gluttony. So many excuses these days. Too much eTing makes people fat full stop!

Unfortunately, these services are now controlled by local authorities and are being cut, which seems like a false economy.

Undoubtedly, daphnedill, but when people affected by the cuts fall by the wayside it's the NHS who has to pick them up, not the LAs concerned.

I should also have added that mental health services have been cut. There is a definite correlation between unhealthy lifestyles and learning disabilities/mental health (eg depression), but as Barmyoldbat pointed out, it doesn't need to be like that. Again a false economy!

I haven't seen anything about doctors making value judgements. However, if an operation or other very expensive procedure is unlikely to be successful, because the patient is obese, a heavy smoker or drinker, it does seem like a poor use of resources.

Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned prevention and supporting people to lose weight, etc. Unfortunately, these services are now controlled by local authorities and are being cut, which seems like a false economy.

SpankyGrandma, a mother of a daughter with learning disabilities believe me they have help with living a fairly healthy lifestyle and don't always need to be overweight.

AB..that's fine but people have to take the consequence when things don't work out and at the moment the consequence is the NHS is making a decision for this group of people to wait a year longer to see if they can change enough to improve their chances of a better outcome. And I am in total agreement with it.

What about people who play sports and end up in A+E to be treated? Extreme sports like climbing? What about the numbers who clog up A+E on a weekend because of binge alcohol and social activities?

What about overweight people with learning disabilities? Or overweight people with severe mental health issues on medication that slows them down?

Where do value judgements over who gets treatment and who doesnt, begin and end?

And Anya, I hive never heard anyone in AA who are recovering alcoholics condemn alcoholics

Anya, I cannot apologise to those who have criticised others who have problems , I congratulate them for overcoming their weight problems but why condemn those who have not ?

But why should it be down to the government to rein in the food industry's marketing of cheap foods and drinks? Is the general public so sheep-like that it will buy what is advertised willy-nilly? If so, there's something seriously wrong with society, not just the food industry.

It's very easy for manufacturers to get around legislatative measures. I think more should be done to make people aware of what they're putting into their bodies and what effect it will eventually have.

People were certainly not more healthy in the 40s and 50s Lizzypopbottle - but the kinds of diseases were different to today. There was a huge amount of heavy smoking that caused a great deal of disease. Deaths from coronary artery disease have more than halved since 1960.
As smoking rates have dropped and various aspects of health care improved, people on average are living a lot longer - so arguably, healthier. These days many people get cured of cancer who would not have survived in the 1950s.
What we do have is people living a long time in a state of ill-health caused by eating and drinking too much and exercising too little. This is expensive for the NHS. Diabetes uses up a significant % of the NHS budget for instance. www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news_landing_page/nhs-spending-on-diabetes-to-reach-169-billion-by-2035/
Yet the government have declined to put firm pressure on the food industry to reign in their relentless marketing of cheap sugary foods and drinks - see the thread on childhood obesity.

My close friend drank two bottles of wine every day for years. We could all see what it was doing to her and she was offered support by the Drs and others to give it up. No it was easier to carry on and so what to the risks. Then to her surprise she was diagnosed with liver cancer and do you know, she was able to stop just like that, never touched another drop. It was to late. I see whole families, mum dad and young kids who are quite frankly fat, this is not genetic it's just overeating and a bad life style being passed down. It is hard doing anything like losing weight, giving up something etc but you have to try if you want a life and nobody is perfect that they won't fall off ladder sometime or another but you have to just keep trying. I am far from perfect, a sweet tooth, on steroids and hate any exercise that hurts (I have RA) but it can be done but maybe just not all the time if that makes sense.

I was addicted to sex, alcohol, gambling and smoking. With a struggle, I managed to cure myself of three of them. But It was impossible, to cure the other one!!!

To be fair to George Best, he fitted the criteria at the time - had been off the booze for the required length of time, was reasonably healthy and could have had a good few years left if he'd managed to stay sober.

No one can predict whether a patient with an addictive disease will relapse or not.

What an honest post luckylegs

Wonder what it's like to be strong willed, decisive, free from human imperfections , I would think it makes one judgemental

You posted that comment above AB .....you were clearly criticising those with strong will, and able to make decisions. You also clearly were not thinking of those whose 'strong will' and being 'decisive' have been the very factors that, eventually, allowed them to overcome their addiction.

I'm asking that you rethink your statement and realise that being 'strong willed and decisive' isn't something to,be sneered at and certainly doesn't equate with being 'free from human imperfections'

I do know you to be a fair women and one, who in the past, has apologised for a comment which later proved to be untrue. I'm asking that you review your comments in the light of my post and my admiration for those who have overcome one of the worst scourges of all, that of alcoholism.

I hoped myself that im68 was being sarcastic. Although some people do talk about the old as if they will never be old

First of all, I m overweight, no one else's fault but mine, no will power.. How many overweight or obese people do you ever see in refugee camps or places where getting food is a problem. It seems now no one will take responsibility for their own well being. When doing operations you have to see the whole picture, George Best was mentioned, I loved him as a person, he played fantastic football and was a great personality and it was such a waste he had that addiction,, but what was the point of that transplant, it could have gone to someone grateful for the chance, who wanted to live, he fell off the wagon that many times. If you want to live you have to decide what you want most and Ho for it.

I'm just making this observation but I worked for many years with 2 ladies, who were overweight and smoked both managed to stop smoking but have not been able to control their weight. This despite many attempts they would both lose weight and them put it back on again. Also one lady used to wake in the night for a cigarette yet she has stopped smoking but her weight yoyos.It is something that puzzles me.

nina my sister is the same. Luck of the genetic draw, I suppose. I hope I'm not judgemental because I agree with Legs55 about being told to do something by someone with a massive plank in their eye!. Goodness knows, there are plenty of things I could do with changing about myself and I'm indecisive about them all. The first one to address is procrastination but I'll make a start tomorrow...

Only people who have never had a significant weight problem could possibly think it's a simple choice. Weight is the last legitimate predudice. People can comment, criticise and ridicule overweight persons without being challenged about that. Try doing it about any other group! Given the social stigma and predudice experienced by anyone overweight, aside from the regular 'lets not give them medical care', 'allow them to foster children' etc, if it was straightforward to lose weight and keep it off, do you think there would be any overweight people in our society? There is a genetic factor in body shape and size can easily been seen in many relatives, including those who haven't lived together and shared the same diet. In my own family, my body shape can be seen several generations back on the paternal side, despite all of my father's relatives having lived in a different country, with a different diet. In addition, when I was a child, there were no inhaled steroids for Asthma, so I was given oral steroids from being an infant, until adolescence. As an adult I developed hypothyroidism and more gained weight. That was eventually treated of course. Now, two of the medications I have to take for other medical issues have the side effect of weight gain! I am now an overweight 57-year-old. I eat less than many slim friends. I dieted for years, and had to severely limit food intake to an unsustainable level in order to lose weight. Whenever I increased my intake to a more normal level, I regained the weight and more. Looking back, if I hadn't repeatedly dieted, I would weigh much less today! There are other physical health conditions and medications that lead to people being overweight, and, as others have mentioned, psychological disorders too. Frankly, it makes me angry to hear sanctimonious comments about how it's a choice and overweight people should simply not be allowed this and that until they lose weight!

Maybe they should just reduce the tax or alcohol and cigarettes and let people spend the difference on private medical insurance instead.

lizzy your post at 13.40 describes my up bringing. However, I was overweight as a child and have been all my life so I'm convinced genetics plays a part, albeit a small one.

I lost quiet a bit before I had my first child then lost again after but I have never been slim.

Anya, I am not judging any recovering alcoholic, just why do you say this,?i have such respect for anyone who can overcome this cruel illness. All I have said is how judgemental some are about addicts, the obese etc, we can pass anyone overweight on the street, we don't know why they are overweight, if because they eat to much we have no idea why , food like alcohol can be a comforter even though they cause harm.

I do not drink but I do not judge alcoholics , I weigh about 7 stone, I do not judge the people who are overweight ,

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I am 68.