Ban on surgery for patients who are overweight or who smoke?

This reminds of when I fell heavily on my left arm. I couldn't raise it more than about four inches yet when I went to see the doctor (I got the locum because the normal doctors were too busy), he told me that it would be a waste of time getting the arm x-rayed because "they wouldn't do anything about it because of your age". He gave little advice except to suggest that I take painkillers. Some four months later, and still not much better, I managed to get my normal doctor and he not only gave me a set of exercises, but also suggested that I had an injection two week's later if my arm was still giving me trouble. I did the exercises religiously and am pleased to say that, although still quite sore at the time, I did pass on the injection. I am now much better but angry that the first doctor didn't suggest some exercises in the first place.

Some of you might be interested in this about global healthcare financing. From ourworldindate.org by Estaban Ortiz-Ospina and Max Roser.

felice thanks for the suggestion of help.
Unfortunately my friend her H and the D in question are all on benefits and live very frugally due to health problems. None of them have ever been abroad or even posses a passport so unfortunately I think your helpful idea would be a step too far.

I agree with those who argue that putting limits on who can have operations should in any way be linked to cost cutting. Anyone needing a non urgent operation should however be encouraged AND supported to get themselves into the best possible condition for said operation.

A recent event concerning DH has reminded me of one of the many areas where the NHS is put under dire pressure is the incidents of DNAs (Did not attend). DH needed an MRI and let them know he's be up for any cancellations - they soon obliged and we had a phone call a couple of days later offering a choice.......whilst there, upon commenting that the clinic seemed quiet was told they had had and hours worth of DNAs that morning and 2 and a half hours worth the previous day!!!
This needs addressing, not sure how but its obviously got something to do with certain patients not valuing the NHS.

Yes dj calorie restriction in action!

dj post

I was a post war baby. My mother used to tell us about conditions like rickets, linked to poor diet. We got plenty of sunshine so vitamin D deficiency wasn't likely for us as children. Food began to be supplemented during WW2 (the beginning of the so called nanny state?) when cod liver oil was recommended for children and free school milk was given from 1946. I refused to take the cod liver oil but my sister actually liked it! Either that, or I was already becoming more decisive than she was and she swallowed her tablespoon because she was told to! ? Apparently rickets is on the increase again because children don't go outside or (some girls) are covered from head to toe.

I thought it was decided.

Lizzie, I think the lack of obesity in the 40s and 50s might have had something to do with the war and rationing, rather than willpower.

This is nonsense about being unable to exercise due to obesity. Join one of the weight loss groups the evidence is out there, when you have reached a target, exercise may help tone you possibly reducing need for surgery. Just sit in any town centre and see how obese our population is, including members of the health profession. We all need to take responsibility for maximising our own health. I agree that many medical interventions are destroyed by life style choices, so all health boards should follow suit, rationing may be the only way to induce responsibility now.

Someone mentioned the link being to North Yorkshire. That's because it's only North Yorkshire/Vale of York that are suggesting doing this. Another example of the postcode lottery that is now the NHS.

My next door neighbour is a 'recovering alcoholic' hasn't had a drink in 17 years. I applaud his will power and don't you dare judge peope like that AB ....that is so hypocritical

Yes lizziepop, but decisive on how everyone should live their lives ?

Lizziepop, rickets and malnutrition were commonplace too

ab it's quite possible to be decisive without setting up as a plaster saint...

Legs55 I agree with your comment along the lines of 'physician heal thyself'! 700,000 NHS workers are obese according to this article.

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/mens-health/11206062/Why-are-so-many-NHS-workers-obese.html

When my auntie was in hospital with back pain, the physiotherapist advising her was enormously fat.

Wonder what it's like to be strong willed, decisive, free from human imperfections , I would think it makes one judgemental of others

If you look at statistics from the 1940s and 50s, when the NHS was new, people were healthier and levels of overweight and obesity were much lower. Our lifestyles have changed since then. We are less active (fewer people had cars and there was more work locally) and our diets are poorer. We (personally) never ate out or ordered in and ready meals didn't exist). As children, we ate three home cooked meals, there were no snacks, fewer fizzy drinks and we played out all day. We went to bed at a reasonable time. Activity plays a part but it's access to food that's insidious. Today's children, if they're in the house all day doing nothing much and who don't go to bed until late have far more access to food than we did as youngsters. Late bedtime has been suggested as a contributing factor in childhood obesity.

Well I'm very fortunate that my surgeon operated twice on me in 12 months. 2 brand new knees. Yes I was overweight as I'd been struggling to walk for the last 10 yrs but was deemed to young for surgery.Now I can walk and exercise I'm getting my life back and getting fitter luckily my surgeon had the foresight to recognise it. I can't believe the condemnation on this thread, its bad enough being ill without being judged wether your fit for treatment by people who have not been in such a situation .

Mumsyface there's some evidence to suggest that the multi-billion dollar slimming/diet industry makes its money from the fact that dieting doesn't work or is, at best, a temporary fix. Calorie restriction is what works and it's very cheap to do. Eat less! It's a simple equation:

Energy input (food) = energy output (life processes and activity) maintains the status quo.
Energy input exceeds output leads to weight gain.
Energy input less than output leads to weight loss.

Research has proved the most effective of those has been shown to be the last one but that increasing exercise without cutting calories is nowhere near as effective.

Yes Im68Now, "in our working lives we had an expectation from cradle to grave", but that was at the inception of the NHS in the 1940s when financially it was possible . There have been so many advances in medical research and treatments that many conditions from which we now expect to survive were unthinkable/ unavailable in the early days of the NHS. e.g. premature baby care, cancer treatments, heart operations, misuse of A&E for minor and alcohol related conditions ,and life-enhancing drug treatments for chronic conditions.
All of these are very costly and the irony of this is , of course, that we are living longer which again puts a strain on resources.
I agree with spyder08, changes will have to be made whatever the political scene. I am no "number cruncher" but throwing vast amounts of money at the present system (even if the money was available) would not support the system in its present form and tinkering here and there will not effect a radical improvement. realistically there may have to be a merger between private and NHS care for everyone.
There have been many comments about personal responsibility for one's health and I consider that a long-term health education plan is a start with free assistance for the aforementioned addictions and perhaps a need for a top-up mutual healthcare policies as in France and Switzerland which was discussed in a forum last week.
Emergency and life-threatening cases are teated 100% by the state but one can choose the level of top-up care on a personal need basis for other treatment. Existing conditions are not excluded and anyone on basic pension / social benefits receive 100% state cover.
I realise that this is anathema to many of you who have always expected NI contributions to cover all health costs, but times are a-changing.
Here in France , at the ages of 73, we pay a top-up of € 75 each a month which covers all our medical needs at the same level as private care in the UK. (Our existing conditions include heart, High BP, asthma and arthritis)
Waiting times to see a consultant are minimal: days or a couple of weeks and x-rays/scans often the next day.
Enough said and I guess I will get some flack mentioning "private and paying"!
Final word - see no problem in refusing deferring treatment if an existing health fact would negate or lesson the effectiveness of the operation : but not as a budget cutting exercise.

I am fuming at this suggestion. Wouldn't it be a better idea to start charging all the Health Tourists and those who have not paid a penny into the system but get preferential treatment for free. There was a report recently where many of these people fail to pay for the received treatment - make them pay upfront then.

I have Epilepsy & Type 2 Diabetes, I am overweight, gave up alcohol almost a year ago & smoke 5 cigarettes a day. I have knee problems, not bad enough to need an op. yet, Medication for Epilepsy makes it hard to lose weight & I struggle to exercise as I enjoy walking but am unable to walk far. I am an active gardener as far as I am able (good & bad days). My diet is perfect for a Diabetic, plenty of veg, restrict portions of fruit as I should (full of natural sugars) & control portion size but still cannot lose weight.

I do dislike very overweight nurses telling me I need to lose weight - I feel like saying "have you looked in the mirror?"

I appreciate the difficulties the NHS is facing - prescriptions are rationed now for items which are regarded as "personal care"

Oh, this was just on the telly. I'm in the southwest, but for some reason the link is for N. Yorks.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-37265752

HildaW I did have to have L5/S1 disc surgery and had terrible sciatic nerve pain in the run up for several months. I gained a good stone and a half almost. Spent all my time reclined on the sofa on a memory foam pad with an over-bed table with my computer so I could work! Just walking for a few mins to the bedroom would bring on horrible pain in legs or upper back.

Thankfully the surgery worked, but not 100%, the nerve was stuck like chewing gum to my spine and had to be scraped off. This had been going downhill for a long time without knowing it except for twinges that I thought were not serious.

Walking actually helps and keeps me flexible, so we walk at least for a half hour or more each day, just to the shops if nothing else. I walk my stepson's dog, too, which is very uplifting!

Am back to within a couple of pounds of pre-problem/surgery weight and am terrified if I see the scale creeping up as I worry about any load on my spine creating more discomfort. I do not have a happy relationship with food anymore, but just try to get on with it and allow myself at least a treat now and then without going down the slippery slope of comfort eating. I have had to ban certain foods from my home.