Ban on surgery for patients who are overweight or who smoke?

It would be very interesting if GN did another of their surveys and gave us access to a spreadsheet of the replies (anonymised of course)

It could have columns for exactly what people eat, and whether thay have eaten similar diets all their lives, whether they smoke, what exercise they do, what their occupations are, their attitudes and reactions to risk and stress, then also their medical history and current health position. They could also add the same details about their parents, linked into their own details.

If could be searchable on multiple combinations of details. There are so many members on GN, with lifestyles, experiences and medical history going back many decades, that it would make interesting reading to see whether lifestyles and choices could be correlated with levels of health.

'You can't ban foods' - no, but Government and the food industry could control what is added to processed food.

Jess mentioned high fructose corn syrup - this is added to shop-bought cakes and cereal bars and biscuits because it extends their sell-by date, but it has been shown to be much more harmful than the ordinary sugar that is used in homebaking, because of the way fructose is metabolised.

Another example is trans fats. In the US there is much more awareness of these fats and things are labelled 'no trans fats' but I've never seen that in the UK.

People may have knowledge of what a good diet consists of and may choose a good diet or a bad one, but rather less knowledge of what has happened to the food they buy and what it really contains.

The government and the food industry need to do their bit, but the final consumer is the person who buys and eats the food.

Love Cocopops! Most delicious cereal ever invented.

I can't believe that cardboard has got as many calories as cornflakes! Never!

Rice and corn based cereals are the only safe ones to eat if you are going to church later in the morning. Never oats. Fact.

Marks and Sparks have done away with trans fats in their products.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/06/kids-school-lunchboxes-junk-food-research-england

Despite the shock horror headline, the journalist does concede that there has been some progress:

"The report found some progress: for instance the majority of packed lunches examined by researchers passed the standards for protein (95%) and vitamin C (75%). There was also a significant reduction in sugary drinks, 46% in 2016 compared with 61%, and a reduction in chocolate-based snacks. But there was no improvement for savoury snacks, such as crisps, found in 60% of packed lunches."

Perhaps public health messages in schools and elsewhere are not a complete waste of time, but it just takes a while for people to change their behaviour. It has taken 60 years for cigarette smoking to stop being the norm.

Re calories in cardboard - calories are just a way of measuring how much energy there is to burn in stuff (with fire or by digesting it) Everyone knows that cardboard burns well. Rats can and do eat and digest cardboard, as well as enjoying candles and electric cabling, so you can compare how they fare on that compared to corn flakes.

If we could digest cardboard we wouldn't need to throw out all that packaging. However, we would then be charged as much for the box as for the cornflakes so the supermaarket bill would be no lower.

Child obesity is falling in every area, except for those from the most deprived families. Public health messages are getting through to young people. Adult obesity continues to rise.

The Vale of York's rate of hip replacement is 50% higher than CCGs of similar characteristics, despite average rates of osteoarthritis.

www.valeofyorkccg.nhs.uk/data/uploads/publications/commissioning-for-value/cfv-vale-york.pdf

All the CCGs have to complete a 'Commissioning for Value' statement. It looks as though the Vale of York has had much lower thresholds for referral. The new policy brings them in line with other CCGs.

The Vale of York has overspent and presumably the hip replacement rate has been highlighted. They can continue to replace hips at the current rate, but they won't get any money for them, so something else will have to be 'rationed'. The policy now seems similar to other CCGs.

So much for the government giving CCGs control of their own budgets!

Re the lunch boxes, perhaps the parents know what the kids will actually eat to give them enough energy to get them through the afternoon. No point putting salad or veg in if wilted salad and tired looking veg comes home again.

There is nothing wrong with a small bag of crisps in a school lunchbox.

The Vale of York is in 'special measures' for overspending, which is why NHS England has been able to intervene to get them to review the policy, but can't intervene with CCGs which have the same or similar policy.

I hate to tell you this, jinglbells, but in secondary schools, pupils don't eat what their parents think they will. Sandwiches are discarded in litter bins and sometimes behind cupboards . By the end of the afternoon, schools begin to smell like my food recycling bin.

Daphnedill up the thread, you ssid to me
"I think you are being extraordinarily naive to think pupils take away messages about good nutrition from cooking lessons in school. Teenagers are more likely to be put off by any messages given out by teachers. Try teaching drugs or sex education to secondary school pupils"

Later you said "Child obesity is falling in every area, except for those from the most deprived families. Public health messages are getting through to young people"

How do you reconcile these two apparently contradictory posts?

Never heard that one dd. In my daughter's school they eat in the canteen. I was actually thinking of primary school children. Surely older kids have a say in what goes in their lunch boxes. Or buy food at school, as in GS's school.

Wasn't that post deleted for using the n*ve word? I had one deleted for using the n*ve word as according to an anomymous moderator that 'wasn't in the spirit' of this site.



Careful Jayne ....

(teacher daughter of course)

What's this n*ve word?

Naive? That's a really rude swear word.

Dare insist it in case my post gets deleted.....oh t hell with it.

NAIVE'

There....

jingl wash your mouth out!!!

@janeainsworth

I can reconcile it very easily.

The generation of young people, who haven't been taught cooking in school, are less obese than older generations.

They are surrounded by healthy living messages from more effective sources than school cookery lessons.

@jingle

I realised you were thinking of primary school children, who are usually sent home with the remains.

Secondary school pupils throw away the contents of their lunch boxes at morning break. Not only that, but some schools don't have big enough canteens or play grounds, so pupils are allowed access to the school at lunch times, when they throw away their lunches. With a bit of luck, they throw it in a bin, but otherwise some of them just throw it anywhere.