Ban on surgery for patients who are overweight or who smoke?

Not sure about the "Get fruity with Gran" thing though!

Yes. It's all a cover for money making. Just like the so profitable Mumsnet.

Exactly DD GN is not about helping 'old' people to chat together. It's only there to make someone a hefty profit. Worth remembering.

So does Gransnet! I wince every time I see the sidebar for 'Baking with Gran'. How about 'Get fruity with Gran' or something?

So true Jess

Bags everyone may have a general idea about what is good for their health. But details like assessing the real nutritive value of a bowl of cocopops - well, I guess you have a more rosy view of the intellectual and educational level of the population than I have. And the amount of time and energy they have to spare to think about all this.
Even the well educated consume expensive juices and smoothies at a far higher level than is sensible, while thinking they are making a healthy choice. (my DIL for instance lets the kids have a lot of juice and nobody is more obsessed with healthy eating...)
And even well educated people will grab a nutty looking snack bar full of corn syrup and other sugars, while thinking they are making healthy choices
And even the most health-conscious people can have mistaken beliefs about the harm that food can cause. I'm thinking of someone who told me with a great deal of certainty that diet coke was much more harmful to health than the kind with 8 teaspoonfuls of sugar, per glass.
You seem to dismiss the expertise of the marketing departments of the food industry. Are all those companies wasting their money on adverts, promotions, packaging etc if it does not manipulate human behaviour?

My argument, jess, has always been that people do know what's not good for their health. Yours has seemed to be that it's someone else's fault (preferably government's) when they decide to overdo the sugary stuff, or to indulge in smoking or other recreational drug-taking. Nope. It's their/our own decision.

And it happens because, as I said, we are weak and we like thrills and instant satisfaction of cravings and desires.

Which is normal. Sorry to be so rational again.

daphnedill I am sorry about your mother, and I do hope she receives good palliative care

Regarding mainly girls being taught about cookery, at the comprehensive school my children went to, Food Technology, which did include practical work, was compulsory for boys and girls at least up to year 10. That was 25 years ago.

My 85 year old mother has just been diagnosed with cancer. She's already been told she won't be offered chemotherapy, which she doesn't want anyway. The reason is that she has a limited life expectancy and there has to be a balance between the quality of her remaining life and the chances of being able to extend her life. She's awaiting another biopsy and will the be told how complicated the treatment would be and a decision will be made whether the risks of treatment outweigh the chances of any benefit, given that she has other conditions.

My father also died of cancer, but wasn't offered surgery, because the cancer was in an inaccessible place and surgery would have been dangerous, because he had pre-existing heart problems.

Hip and knee replacements do have a limited life. My mother had a hip replacement in her late 50s, because she broke her hip in a fall. Surgery was the last option, but in her case there really wasn't any choice. She then had a replacement about ten years later and could have done with another replacement for the last five years. There are more risks with replacements and she has refused one, although she's been in great pain. Doctors have to weigh up the benefits of replacing a joint too early and possibly having to have three or more replacements. The NHS would have done it, if she'd wanted and had been prepared to accept the risks.

Doctors make these kind of decisions all the time and I suppose it could be called rationing.

Well Bags you always seem to argue from a position that human beings are entirely logical. I'm glad to hear that you do recognise that human frailty is a factor in dietary choices.
Wasn't meant to be rude - just a bit exasperated.
I try only to be rude on GN if someone is being offensive. I did this the other day on another thread but made myself delete the "oh do sod off" and replaced it with something more restrained.

I haven't seen this Bella Younger perform but her attitude to food as expressed in this article is pretty close to mine.

Thanks, Ann.
The people I know personally took at least a year, so it's good to know that the NHS works quicker in some cases.
Dare I ask how bad it was before you saw the GP about it?
My sister has had two hip operations, and a friend has had two knee operations. Another friend was using walking sticks in his early fifties because of arthritis in his knees, and was told he couldn't have an operation until he was 60, because they would not last very long.
The strange thing was that he had already had two heart attacks. The cynic in me wondered if they were waiting to see if he died before he was 60.

Doesn't stop kids consuming the biscuits, cakes, desserts, crisps etc etc that their parents buy though does it?

Nope. Nor ones they buy themselves at Waitrose at lunch time out of school.
And none of that means they, and their parents, don't know what is 'healthy' food and what isn't.

Have you been to an ASDA or similar in a poorer area of the country Bags? They don't stock multiple aisles with "snacks" and "treats" unless a lot of people are buying them.

Have you seen a Waitrose cake, cookie and doughnut display recently? The lemon doughnuts and lemon yum-yums are my faves. I have one or other every time I go there. I eat it in the car before I go home. Have to have wet wipes handy cos I get so sticky.

In your world everyone is sensible, rational and well educated.

Proof? Evidence even? No, thought not.

How do you account for all the bad choices people make regarding drugs, alcohol and diet if they are all so well informed and full of common sense?

I've answered that bit already.

Just where did that come from? Did I miss a post?

I can't believe you wrote that post, jess! It is so incredibly rude. I'm really shocked.

How do you account for all the bad choices people make regarding drugs, alcohol and diet if they are all so well informed and full of common sense?

I 'account' for it, jess, by acknowledging that people (our species) are weak, that people like thrills, and by acknowledging that addictions are difficult to overcome.

Well educated people are not always sensible. Sense, often called common sense, is not the exclusive preserve of well educated people. How insulting of you to imply, based on utter ignorance, that my uneducated grandparents were not rational and sensible! So rude!

I'd like to ask you to stop making assumptions about what you refer to as "my world" because you know fuck all about it and I'd thank you to bear that in mind in future, if you would be so kind.

I saw my GP in April,saw consultant in May, had op August 8th

How long does it take from symptoms to operation for hip or knee?
I can't think of anyone who has been offered an operation in less than a year from seeing the GP first. Perhaps GPs are not telling people early enough, or are hospital trusts wanting to add another year on to save costs?

@Granny23

Yes, of course they are, although they should also be advised that orthopaedic surgery will be more successful, if they can lose weight. They should also be advised that anaesthesits carry more risk, if they smoke and they should be given time to try to give up.

www.soilassociation.org/better-food/our-campaigns/supermarket-superbugs/

Something we can ask supermarkets to do something about to improve our health.

Recently, by chance, we have met several of DH's former work colleagues in the building industry. 5 to 10 years ago they were all fit and healthy brickies, plumbers, electricians, none of whom played sports as they got more than enough exercise in the course of their daily work. All of them are now retired through accident, illness or simply old age and all of them are now obese and 'flabby'. Not only has 50 years of hard manual labour taken its toll, but the sudden change to a sedentary lifestyle has piled on the pounds.

Do these people deserve to be treated by the NHS?

@JessM

That's the conundrum. People do know what's unhealthy, but they still make irrational choices. Until that's cracked, obesity will continue to rise. In developed countries, eating is about much more than satisfying hunger pangs.

Yes, they do have lessons about it all their school lives - that's my point. They don't need cooking lessons to reinforce that message. Healthy lifestyles has been a cross-curricular theme for years and, as I mentioned, we even had to teach it in foreign languages. If they've been taught even half-well, most secondary pupils could tell you how to say things like 'Fast-food is unhealthy, One should eat five portions of fruit and veg a day, One should not eat too much sugar' in whatever foreign language(s) they've been taught. I agree with you, bags, it's not a lack of education, but the typical school dinner of pasta with a gloopy sauce followed by an iced bun, which is damaging.

Doesn't stop kids consuming the biscuits, cakes, desserts, crisps etc etc that their parents buy though does it? Have you been to an ASDA or similar in a poorer area of the country Bags? They don't stock multiple aisles with "snacks" and "treats" unless a lot of people are buying them. In your world everyone is sensible, rational and well educated. How do you account for all the bad choices people make regarding drugs, alcohol and diet if they are all so well informed and full of common sense?

My 11 year old grandson's the same. "No! It'll make me fat."