Ban on surgery for patients who are overweight or who smoke?

Yes, I do agree and it won't be improved by condemning children to so-called life skills - that's what 19th century elementary schools did. I also don't see why the vast majority of pupils, who aren't functionally illiterate, should be forced to do dumbed down subjects. That's why comprehensive schools differentiate.

lizzy, do you mean daphnedill?

daphnedill, do you agree that there is functional illiteracy? Which is says lizzy at 16% +?

Hi obione young people have to stay in education till they are 18 now:

www.gov.uk/know-when-you-can-leave-school

What should they be learning if they're not destined for university? Even A level students, who take up to three or four subjects, have loads of time left in the school day for life skills. If their parents aren't able to help them learn vital skills, why shouldn't schools provide the opportunity? ?

PS. Teach them to read better if they can't understand a cookbook!

lizzy,

Childhood obesity in the UK has fallen since 2006/7, except amongst children from the most deprived families. Obesity prevalence for children in the most deprived areas was double that of those living in the least deprived areas. I think that needs addressing and I am not convinced that cooking lessons for all even starts to make a difference.

The least deprived children are most likely to be those at independent schools and/or not to study 'life skills' at school, but they seem to be the slimmest.

I am concerned that the most deprived children are likely to end up with a dumbed down and patronising curriculum, which doesn't give access to higher education and better opportunities.

Children get all sorts of healthy living messages throughout school until they're sick and tired of them and they're likely to have a negative effect. Cynicism about experts starts early and is least likely to be effective with the children who need education most. You only have to look at GN to realise that education isn't the only barrier to maintaining a healthy weight.

I really disagree with your ideas on the curriculum. School is the only place that most children have an opportunity to learn about something outside their normal lives and all children should have access to those opportunities.

lizziepopbottle, I think that that is a good point too, that is often very much missed in lots of conversations about all sorts of things.

anniesgrannie, I did think that that had to be the case, that it was quite possiblt to lose weight without any exercise.
Can I ask, were you told to lose the weight before you are allowed the operation?

I don't think this is about blaming people, or about rationing or cutbacks. It's more about safety and a good recovery.

As a teacher you must've been fully aware of all the young people who couldn't do what you did dd. Learning to learn is a buzz word these days. Perhaps you only taught the academically competent youngsters. Functional illiteracy is still running at about 16%. Give those kids a cook book and see how much use it is to them. Then there are the ones who can read pretty well but without a high level of understanding. They don't learn anything well independently. There's plenty of time in the curriculum for important skills if other subjects take a back seat. RE is still compulsory up to year 11 but who needs it? The ability to lead a healthy life including feeding yourself is surely more important than knowing facts about history, geography, etc. English, Maths, Science (my subject hehe ?) healthy living and COOKING. Drop the rest!

Well done, anniesgrannie! I'll look out for you in the next London marathon!

I'm a former secondary school teacher and most parents had learnt how to speak to their children by then. I learnt how to cook and about nutrition from reading about it at a stage in life when it was important. Calorie counting and understanding the need for three basic macro nutrients isn't rocket science.

@lizzy

I agree, but I don't see why I or either of my children should have been forced to learn about cooking at school. It should be offered, but not compulsory.

@whitewave

You won't escape advice about smoking cessation and weight loss, even if you go to a BUPA hospital.

Preparing for hip replacement

If you smoke, you will be asked to stop. This is because smoking increases your risk of getting a chest and wound infection, which can slow your recovery. If you’re overweight, your surgeon will discuss the benefits of losing excess weight. This will help reduce the strain on your hip and may mean you’re less at risk from complications of surgery.

www.bupa.co.uk/health-information/directory/h/hip-replacement

iPads

Yes, but how long ago was that? Academia isn't for everyone, dd but we all need to eat. Both parents working nowadays may not have the time or the cooking skills to pass on to their children and as a former primary teacher I can vouch for the fact that many parents barely speak to their young children. They are too busy looking at their phones and iPods! Many little ones arrive at school unable to string a coherent sentence together. That's no exaggeration.

Weight can be lost, even though one can't exercise. I have lost two stone counting calories. Still got some way to go, before having a knee replacement.

I disagree, lizzie, about cooking in schools. I never had a cookery lesson and I'm glad I spent my time learning about things I couldn't have learnt for myself. Only an ostrich can ignore healthy lifestyle messages.

We'll have to agree to disagree, smileless. They're being told that the op is likely to be risky and unlikely to improve mobility.

Aaah so for smokers then, there is an alternative that can alleviate additional health risks if for example surgery is required, so no need to deny them medical treatment.

Remember that TV programme, 'Can't cook-Won't cook' whitewave? You've hit (one of) the nail on the head there. I practise calorie restriction i.e. 5:2 fasting. I'm not trying to convert anyone. It works for me. My son makes one of our fast day meals using two tins of butter beans @50p each. The whole recipe comes in around £3.25 and feeds two people a substantial meal. (We don't eat all of it on the fasting day. He makes a delicious hummus from what's left and we eat it for lunch next day.) It is also delicious, filling, low in fat and high in protein and both soluble and insoluble fibre. If you buy dried beans and soak them yourself, it would be considerably cheaper again. It's time schools raised the profile of cookery teachers and made cookery a compulsory subject in the core curriculum instead of GCSE food technology which covers large scale manufacture, product design and the psychology and design of packaging as well as a bit of cooking (at least it did when my daughter studied it). My son's are excellent cooks. They learned and were enthused by watching young TV chefs. My daughter's husband does most of their cooking. A* at GCSE hasn't given her any kind of expertise or interest in the kitchen.

Exactly, lionpops. As for discriminating against patients when there's a low rate of success and/or greater risks, this has also been going on for ages. That's why we have NICE guidelines. There's only a limited amount of money (and I'll support anybody who says it's not enough), but I'd rather money were spent as effectively as possible. I'd rather money were spent on 100 cataract ops than one person, whose op would be risky and/or unlikely to succeed in improving health.

No, that wouldn't simply be judge mental daphnedil that would be extremely rude and un professional. It doesn't matter how politely some one who is over weight or smokes is told that they can't have medical treatment, they are still being judged and discriminated against.

@Mistyfluff

Both my parents have had cataract ops. My father was in his late 70s, when he already had heart and other problems. My mother had one cataract removed six weeks ago. She's 85, has survived cancer twice and it's returned, can hardly walk and is partially deaf.

The issue of not operating on overweight patients applies mainly to orthopaedic patients. It has been shown that knee/hip replacement surgery carried out on obese patients has a high risk of failure . This is the reason for the guide lines which have in fact been going on for some time now. In regards to smokers, once more it has been proven than the risk of complications following surgery on smokers is extremely high. Anaesthetists are reluctant to deal with smokers for this very reason and that is why epidurals have made a big come back.

@Smilesless

It would be judgemental if the doctor said the the patient, "You big porker, it's your own fault your fat, because you're a greedy guts, and I'm punishing you by banning you from an operation." That's not what's happening.