Brexit 3

I wonder if Bremainers in Wales 'dislike being Welsh' ( doubt it.)

Tinglydancer what a curious post! No, can't think that many people feel as you do,
'Dislike being English' indeed.Although a lot of Bremainers do seem to have a strong case of sour grapes.

Yet another one who seems to believe all those who voted to leave are xenophobic, small-minded bigots!

No wonder people are fed up - in both camps.

Excellent article here, tingly.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/07/marching-mad-brexit-someone-speak-48-per-cent

'So who will speak for the 48%? They – we – are not looking for a champion who will pretend that the referendum never happened, but one who will fight for a Brexit that does not deprive us of all we cherished in our relationship with Europe. It means arguing for a sane, practical deal that serves, rather than harms, our national interest – and that could then be put to the British people in an election or even, if that’s what it takes, another referendum. It means challenging, for instance, Fox’s ludicrous, dogmatic search for commerce with every far-flung corner of the planet except the 500 million-strong market on our doorstep with whom we currently do nearly half our trade.
The pound is worth less – but what does it mean for Brits?
Read more

The key arena for this battle will be parliament. Labour has a national duty to challenge the government’s every step: the combination of Keir Starmer, shadowing the Brexit ministry, and Hilary Benn chairing the relevant Commons committee could deliver sharp scrutiny. But they are impaired by the Labour leadership’s perverse readiness to jettison single market membership, even as it admirably defends free movement.'

It's much longer than this.
Anyone else watching the debate in parliament? IDS called Keir Starmer a second rate lawyer. Tories appeared to be very embarrassed.

Quite understandable to be fed up I think, after the arrogant Brexiters lied and played the race card in order to win the vote. And after Cameron handled the whole thing so ineptly.
The current government seem to have embraced the key UKIP policies of leave the EU and keep the damn foreigners out, and have done so with gusto. The Tory party conference rhetoric about immigration was an embarrassment to our whole nation.
I'd like my country back - the one in which people were tolerant and outgoing rather than xenophobic and small minded.

tingley there are many people who feel as you do - you only need to see some of the anti Brexit groups to see what the changes may actually do to people's lives and how it makes them feel.

I find all the complaining annoying, actually.

Why do some people seem to find it so hard to accept that the 'Leave' vote won? I bet there wouldn't be all this fuss about 'only so many voted/didn't vote/didn't know what they were voting for' if 'Remain' had won!

Glad you find it all so amusing.....

They're positively falling over themselves to complain!

I wonder who will be first to complain?

Well, you by the sounds of it Tinglydancer!

Although, wait a minute, others may have beaten you to it

Tingleydancer; welcome to my world. Agree with everything you've said.

Going to be 5p rise on the price of petrol.

What a bitter and pessimistic post, Tingleydancer.

Because the result of the referendum was 'Leave', you've decided you dislike being English and can't wait to say 'I told you so' when the sky falls in (as it won't!).

How sad for you.

Loozzamas: the will of the people, as you put it, amounts to about one third of the people able to vote. So not really 'the people' in the strict sense. Additionally, of those that did vote ..... Well you know the figures I'm sure; it was a very small majority. I am a staunch Bremainer and now feel disenfranchised from my country and dislike being English. I still cannot understand what possessed people to vote leave. The recession hasn't hit yet but it most certainly will and already the £ has plummeted against the € and $. When we are 'one for one' and it costs a fortune to holiday in Europe or America and when UK prices rise and the value of property falls - I wonder who will be the first to complain? I will certainly be ready to say "I told you so" - and yes, I'm still angry!! We haven't seen anything yet I'm afraid.

I realise that welxhwife but farmers are not stupid; we don't know how many, if any, may have changed their minds.
They are one group who will have gone into the pros and cons most thoroughly because it affects them much more directly than most.

Soryy about the typo! It will not let me go back to change it

I bet David Davis is really looking forward to this.

fullfact.org/law/ask-full-fact-brexit-in-court/

Jalima that was all before the vote - another one now would be more relevant - there is a little more known about what is likely to happen than when that vote was taken.

Welshwife the article is very pro-EU and I take all the points - but not all farmers are - why, for instance, did Welsh farmers vote for UKIP MEPs?

Here, from the 'horses' mouths' rather than from the Guardian, which may possibly have a little bias :
www.fwi.co.uk/farmlife/young-farmers-back-brexit.htm

It seemed to me that the housing talked about in the Brexit campaign was indeed affordable and council housing in areas where 'the immigrants' steal them all.

Granted, the Surrey gold belt and SW London are full of very wealthy foreigners- many of whom have been paying very little taxes as 'non-doms' for a very long time. They always do find houses- no shortage for them.

Just read this article this morning - about farming in Devon www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/oct/08/walking-into-the-unknown-rural-england-weighs-up-the-reality-of-brexit?CMP=share_btn_link

granjura who said anything about ' affordable' housing? In this country houses are in demand in all price brackets.

petra- the ones I know who intend to leave have very large houses in SW London and Surrey - not sure it will be 'affordable housing' somehow ;)

Look on the bright side. With so many leaving it will free up much needed housing.

So many of the young people we know, nephews and nieces, our DDs friends and some of my ex students - have been getting in toch and asking advice about how to come and work here or in France - 1 when we first moved here, all the others since Brexit- as they a/ see no future in the country b/ feel disgusted about what they see happening around them.

You can poopoo it, and deny it- if you wish.