Brexit 3

Yes, DS went twenty something years ago, long before us. OH spent his career globetrotting (though based in the UK) and his family lived and worked in the Middle East for many years.
DD had always talked about staying in the UK before though and a lot of her friends, who have no family tradition of working abroad are talking about leaving.

Mamie but you are abroad too? So it is not unusual to have family who want to spread their wings surely?

Mine have always spread their wings, in the EU and much farther afield, only one came back
So have so many of their age group, years before Brexit.

I think a lot will go DJ. My DD is talking about working abroad once the GDs have finished school. Many of her friends are thinking about it too.

Mamie, all my grandchildren are talking about going to live and work in the EU.
My elder son's wife is Spanish. They will possibly be moving there. His ex-wife will probably go first with her new husband.
My eldest granddaughter wants to teach on the continent. Her sister will either come up here to get her degree, or go to somewhere like Holland or Scandinavia, or even Spain, depending on what can be afforded.
Might have to get a new passport if all this happens.

Totally get that Mamie - what a shame. I am truly delighted our DDs, and Gcs are allowed to have dual nationality - and that one day they will be able to come and study here, if they wish, and work without having to get work permit.

Thanks Daphne now I am up to date with student fees, it is common for Germans students to finance or part finance their living costs.

That's probably because they didn't think they would be elected, Mamie.

It is also interesting that apparently the last Conservative manifesto talked about the need to protect the single market. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation of a mandate for a hard Brexit.

Fortunately putting it on here does not mean spoilers!

It's in the Observer as well. Recorded Marr but haven't watched it yet.

That's what Keir Starmer said on the Andrew Marr programme.

May who was unelected and has no mandate, other than a preference vote to carry out Brexit, cannot and should not introduce anything Brexite related unless it goes through parliament and is debated in the proper democratic way.

No GJ I was not in any way suggesting that it was anything to do with the UK or Brexit that Spain does not allow dual nationality. DS has no choice but to take it though; he has a Spanish wife and Spanish children and he needs to work to support them. I do feel sad that my GCs will no longer have the right to live, study and work in the UK though.

Headlines in Observer from editorial. Those liberal latte drinkers
" The I'll-thought-out idea emanating from the hard Brexiters are alarming and unpleasant. These people know only what they do not like. They have little idea how to replace the hard-won principles and institutions they traduced. They convey an undertone of intolerance and xenophobia. They are testiment to what increasingly line a retreat from Britains liberal, inclusive and open minded tradition and a return to a narrow, delusional world of Little England"

Hear! Hear!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/08/article-50-lord-kerr-calls-vote-brexit-terms

Digressing again, I have a feeling Theresa May will not agree to this.

At a tangent here, but one of the young expats from London who has been working in Basel for a few years has just been made redundant- his un-employment benefits, due to high salary combined with huge drop in Sterling rate- amounts to .......

£80.000 a year. Yes- he is not in a hgue hurry to find work, I hasten to say- cycling, walking, eating and drinking to his little heart's content ...

DD2 lived in Spain and run a business there, and she often talked about the way the Spanish protected their own jobs. she found it easier because she speaks Spanish (and French). However I am not sure how the UK or even Brexit can be responsible for the fact the Spanis do not allow dual nationality. I'd find that a very hard choice to make- and I am glad I've had dual nationality for 43 years- and DH for about 5.

Not just pensioners. Younger people who are living and working in Europe because of EU freedom of movement are also affected.
I have written before about my son who will have to give up his British nationality because it is very hard for non EU citizens to get work permits in his field and Spain does not allow dual nationality.

Agreed Margaret- the rules re negotiations were VERY clear, always have been. Many experts tried to explain this, some of us put links to that effect - but to no avail. It is NOT Juncker's fault.

Re the 15 year rule- I am not sure- but in many ways I agree. If people live permanently abroad, and normally would not be affected directly by an election, for instance- perhaps 15 year rule is fair. In this case, as Mamie says, pensioners abroad are being severely affected, to the extent where it may turn out to be a total disaster for some...

@Margaret

My understanding is that EU students pay a nominal fee to study at German universities (approx 500 Euros a year). I'm not absolutely sure, but I think they have to self-finance living costs. Depending on circumstances, this can work out cheaper for British students.

Leaving the EU is a backward step for students. My daughter was an Erasmus student as part of her degree at Manchester Uni. Her time abroad really made her grow up and gave her a huge amount of confidence. My son has just started uni and was hoping to tap into the same funding. Currently the situation is unclear. We live in a globalised world and I truly believe that we need to encourage as many young people to 'take the plunge' outside their comfort zone. That's what so many immigrants to the UK have done and why we tend to get the most entrepreneurial, who make a huge contribution to society - and why native Brits, too nervous to take the plunge, are so resentful.

Indeed. As it stands at the moment we can only vote for 15 years after leaving the UK. This meant that a lot of people who have been affected by the result in a very fundamental way were not able to vote in the Referendum.

Oh blow me down Mamie you're right, how confusing is that. Of course there are exceptions, like the Irish. And there's a long long list of commonwealth and dependent territory nationals that CAN vote in a general election. (just checked)
We have obviously always been ambivalent about EU

Up till now I feel that everything Juncker has said was right according to the regulations. It is not his fault if the Leave people did not read the conditions.

A lot of time and work go into getting or setting up the conditions of entry or departure to the EU. Bad luck when the British lose a bit of their pension . I am one of them. but you can't say J-C-Juncker is to blame.

Britain must make it up to them. it is a British pension and now sunk so low they have a right for something added on.

All this whining about Juncker gets on my nerves. It is usual on the continent that when laws have been passed that you stick to them and don't give them up or weaken them just because millions of uninformed people have voted to leave.
The latest from Germany is that non Eu students will have to pay to study at German universities. Germans or even EU students don't pay much - if anything. I don't know, my children are no longer students
So if anybody out there wants to study he/she should apply now before the UK has left.

Sorry, Mamie. I didn't see your post before I posted.

That's what I thought, granjura. I can't really see any point in wasting their money on that.