Brexit 3

Having lost massively on exchange rate, if we had to begin to pay health insurance now (about £500 to 600 a month for basic cover for the 2 of us)- that would force a return to UK- and would apply to 100s of 1000s of elderly expats. How would the UK house them and pay for their treatment, etc.?

I am trying to get this straight in my head: ex-pats may be forced to return to the UK because they cannot afford to live in Europe because of the poor exchange rate which has reduced their income. In Europe they are having to pay £500 to £600 per month for health insurance, but would expect to get free healthcare from the NHS if they come back here but worry that the NHS could not cope with the influx.

Therefore there are more expectations from the UK than from the country where they re-located; they would expect to pay a certain amount towards healthcare where they at present reside (£500 - £600 per month is very substantial!), but expect the NHS to fund them if they return here.

Which would seem to be an unfair burden on UK residents who pay tax and NI. Senior citizens in the UK don't pay NI after retirement, which I think is wrong, as I do believe that we should be paying a proportion towards the NHS on a means-tested basis.

Have I got that right? If not, I'm sure someone will correct me!

It was 1.40 to the euro when we moved here, went down to almost parity in 2008, was 1.35 in January this year and we got 1.11 yesterday. Parity for an extended period is our bottom line too, but we wouldn't go back to the UK, just sell for what we could get and move to something smaller here.

600£ per month, not per year! Plus pas for 10% and the first 300.

The lowest we ever had a pension transfer was at 1.18 - but when Brexit is called, it is likely to fall way below and perhaps even parity. We could hold for a while- but not if it is long term. When I first came to live in UK in 1970- it was 10 CHF to the £!!! Even when we bought the house here it was 2.50- yiiikes.

As said, expats working in Switzerland at vast salaries are laughing all the way to their Swiss bank accounts. Average expat salary is about 120 K CHF per year- at 2.50 it was brilliant, at 1.18 it is a fortune and more!

Not asking for any sympathy here- some would find it crazy that we chose to come and retire in Switzerland with UK pensions, I can truly see that. But this were I was born and raised, where my very elderly parents lived and where we had many excellent friends, etc. And also the cheapest part of Switzerland to buy, the Jura mountains- and very close to FRance for shopping in Euros. We did expect and were prepared for fluctuations- but minus 55% and getting worse is something we could never have anticipated in a month of Sundays with blue moons.

So yes, in the Swiss system- if we had to pay for health insurance at about 600£ minimum for 2 of us - and with the Swiss Franc increasing in value every time the £ and Euro fall- then yes- up t'creek without them paddles indeed it could be. We are very very lucky we would have the option to go back to UK without losing everything, we are very aware.

We know - we had our monthly transfer yesterday!
Obviously the low pound affects food prices in the UK eventually; in fact we thought we noticed that when we were in the UK last week?

£sterling still falling unfortunately. We have been experiencing a false war since the vote as no decisions have yet been made, but just a date for the A50 has sent the markets jittering.

Thanks, that answers the questions about Switzerland. I am not sure loss of the S1 makes a huge difference to the poorest Brits in France. Eight per cent of income over 10,000€ offset against any tax liability would presumably amount to not very much in relative terms, given that it already costs us 150€ in top-up insurance.
What I don't know is how it works in Spain at the moment. I don't think the Spanish have to pay 30% top-up insurance as French people do though.
The lower pound is a bigger problem, as we already know.

So yes, we have same basic cover as Swiss nationals - but not private health care. In my case, I was very surprised. The surgeon I was recommended told me when the date for my knee op was decided, that he operates in a private clinic. I said I couldn't possibly go ahead, as we only have basic cover. He told me not to worry, as they had to take a % of basic patients per year- and all was fine. I had the op in a posh clinic with marble floors and statues- and a nice private room with very nice food and lots of staff. Just couldn't believe it.

Basic cover - does indeed cover all but generally without extra (non medically essential) frills.

In Switzerland, it is compulsory for everyone to have medical Insurance. This is provided by a whole array of private companies. They MUST accept everyone, irrespective of pre-exisiting conditions, and they can't 'get rid' of you if you develop a severe and expensive condition. If someone cannot afford the insurance, then social services here will subsidise it (as in low wages) or pay the totality- if you are destitute (the case with a relative of mine who went travelling all over the world all his life and now come back in his late 60s severely ill and with no means!)...

Those private companies make their money on 'top up insurances' for private room, private care and operations in private hospital, choice of surgeon, etc. For those 'supplementals' they can exclude anyone who they assess as not being a good risk (eg more likely to be profit!) - we were both turned down for supplemental due to pre-exisiting conditions (including my gammy knee).

Being retirees with NO Swiss income, from the UK, we do not have to have medical insurance- our medical care is covered by the reciprocal agreement with the EU. We have to pay a 'franchise' of 300 Francs per year ourselves, and then 10% of everything up to a maximum of 700 francs. So this year, with my knee op, I've maxed out for this year for the first time and paid 1000 Francs.

With the £ to Swiss franc having lost 55% and more since we moved here 7 years ago- we can just about hold. If the reciprocal agreements fall, and we have to find another £600 or more per month ot pay for basic health care (+ the 300 and 10%) - and if Brexit cause even further falls in £ value- we would have to consider going back to UK. And we are VERY fortunate that we have kept a property there we can move to- and that the further the £ drops versus the CHF (Swiss Franc) - the more money we would make on the sale of our house here. The 55% we have so far lost due to exchange rate and perhaps more- would come straight back in our pocket if we turned out the procceds of house sale here back into £ !

How stupid is that the fall in the £ would force a move, but make us rich!!! Oh the irony of it all. Expats here are very happy with the fall of the £ and their big fat Swiss salary now worth 55% more than a few years ago- they certainly enjoy their shopping trips to UK- and are also buying UK property in vast numbers.

Most expats to Spain and part of France, if they lose their right to cheap health care - and the £ continues to drop- will sadly have no choice but to return- and with houses almost impossible to sell in the parts where they live (the reason they got fantastic properties for much less than in the UK) - would return with very little, and need housing and health care, etc. Not sure if that answers your questions Mamie.

Have just been reading up on this GJ and it seems to be the case that everyone in Switzerland pays private health insurance without discrimination for pre-existing conditions? As the S1 only gives you access to the same provision as nationals, how does that work now?
Does anyone know how it actually works in Spain at the moment?
Sorry lots of questions, but there is so much misinformation in the press about this.

Did you mean continue to pay the bill for the medical bills of expats in Spain GJ? Obviously it is paid by the UK at the moment, under the S1 scheme. I don't know how it works in Spain, but here in France we would be able to stay in the system, but pay 8% of our income over a 10k euro threshold, plus the top-up insurance which we already pay. This would be the same as French pensioners pay.
Obviously that will cause more financial hardship, given the already disastrous impact of the falling pound.
When we were faced with trying to get private medical insurance before it was not possible to get cover for pre-existing conditions. Can't imagine that has changed.

Hammond said today that there would be a new fund for building 25,000 houses. Couldn't see anything about council housing, though, so it will not solve this problem.

www.24housing.co.uk/news/mps-urged-to-act-on-eviction-crisis/
Hard to believe how many families are being evicted by private landlords.
Jobs for Polish builders, though.

Particularly with all those British doctors wanting to go abroad. The perfect storm.

Ana: 'It can't be a backdated claim though, so I expect everyone will have the same idea as you, granjura.'

not quite sure what this means, sorry. Could you elucidate, please.

I imagine other EU countries and Switzerland will soon do the same as Spain. Having lost massively on exchange rate, if we had to begin to pay health insurance now (about £500 to 600 a month for basic cover for the 2 of us)- that would force a return to UK- and would apply to 100s of 1000s of elderly expats. How would the UK house them and pay for their treatment, etc.?

Sorry for all typos. Didn't bother to proofread.

I posted tyhis a while ago, but it seems appropriate here. Apparently the thinking among some of Nissan's sunderland staff goes something like this:

The Sunderland plant is highly efficient; it has highly skilled workers and the highest productivity rate of all Nissan's European plants. Relocating to somewhere in Europe would mean lower productivity (especially as all those Europeans insist on having more public holidays than the Brits). So given the choice between moving to the european mainland for lower productivity or remaining here but having to pay the tariffs resulting from leaving the single Market the one will balance out the other so they might as well stay here.

Jeremy Hunt says that after Brexit, we should replace foreign born doctors with British ones.
There are 36% of doctors in the NHS who were born overseas.
Ubfortunately, he doesn't listen to British doctors, as 50% of those in training in 2010 want to go abroad.

Nissan doesn't need a 'bail out'. It's making a profit, because it's efficient, unlike BL.

By one of the employees.

'Heading off to start the afternoon shift and assemble a few more models, one production line worker, who has been with Nissan for 18 years, said he was one of just two people in his 40-strong team to vote to stay in the EU. His 21-year-old son, who also works at the plant, voted out. Ghosn’s threats are not empty, he insisted. “I do believe Nissan would go if they don’t get assurances from the government. The business in Sunderland is very modular. Everything can be put on the back of a wagon and shipped to Spain. They are a business trying to make profit. At the end of the day we are just a small cog in a very big machine.” '

If you go past the Nissan factory, it does look like lots of flatpacks from Ikea.

I was obviously talking about the present!

I wasn't suggesting it, just responding to:

No government, Labour or Tory, would buy a car plant - it's just not going to happen

Harold Wilson thought it was a good idea!
Anyway, the clue's in the name - British Leyland

No one is talking about a bailout Jalima, Nissan is successful! The man in the article wants the government to say to Nissan

‘Fine, you leave. We’ll buy it and we’ll run it.’

Why would they want to sell instead of just moving the whole caboodle to the EU? No government would these days buy a car maker; and which profitable company would want to sell to the government?

I still can't get over the stupidness of thinking that such a scenario would ever arise.

I remember Harold Wilson, just!

Yes, fair enough. It can't be a backdated claim though, so I expect everyone will have the same idea as you, granjura.

Spain is now saying, quite rightly imho- that the UK should pay for the (huge) medical bill for UK expats there. FAir enough, I say- can't have cake and eat it.

(This will soon affect all expats (=IMMIGRANTS) all over Europe- includind Switzerland which has the same reciprocal agreements in place. Better have my second knee done asap then.