Foreigners

Yes, you have to be desperate in some cases, for others, not so much (from Pakistan) but you also have to ask yourself ( about the men, not talking unaccompanied children here) why they can't settle for a life in France instead of trying to get into the UK.

I agree I don't know what the proportions of economic migrants are compared to those fleeing life threatening situations. But you are pretty desperate to change your life to make the journeys these folk have made.

I am not sure why so many are vehement about not making comparison with the kindertransport. These were Jewish children & children of those politically opposed to the growth of the far right, who were being offered protection from the growing danger in Europe.

What is different to offering refuge to children from Syria, and other places, where the rise of the extreme policies of ISIS are a threat to them?

Not all are 'refugees'

This doesn't address the question about exactly who are economic migrants.Pakistan is not at war, why are so many in Calais? Why don't the Afghan and Sudanese apply to live in France as they are already here? So, a great many ARE economic migrants.

From the Independent Catholic News.

'The Calais refugees are often called "economic migrants", coming to England for a better life. I have met many people in Calais over these months, and I have yet to meet one who has made the seven month, perilous journey for reasons of finance. Today was no different. I spent time with Jack, a translator for Care4Calais. Jack is 24 - but look at his life-weary eyes and he could easily be a decade older than that. He is a bright, gifted young man who speaks five languages, including Pashto, Farsi, Arabic and English. I asked him where he learnt his English. "Here," he said, "In the Jungle." He speaks fluently and clearly. He has been in Calais for five months, and he has been translating for the last two months. The reason I am with him, together with another Care4Calais volunteer, is to visit a section of the camp with sheets that picture some basic items - a hoody, jogging bottoms, body spray deodorant, a razor, toothpaste, a blanket, a T-shirt, boxer shorts and socks. Each person we meet can choose one high value item (hoody or joggers) or three of the cheaper items.

This system reflects what is in the warehouse, and the sheer volume of people: within 90 minutes, I had written out requests - known as "tickets" - for over 150 people requesting about 400 items; Jack translated constantly, patiently; he shifted between languages as we moved between Pakistani, Afghan and Sudanese refugees, all living perfectly peaceably together in the part of the camp we are ticketing. In the evening, volunteers at the warehouse turn the tickets into parcels with the specific items requested, and the next day there will be a time for collection in the camp. It is a superb system, developed just within the last few weeks. It gives the refugees an element of choice, it stops long queues in bad weather, and it means the refugees are not stuck in queues for items that may not be suitable or may run out. Multiply our 400 or so items by five - as five teams were out in different areas of the camp - and we have covered about 10% of the camp, with requests for 2000+ items.'

No, we don't know. That's just what some people say to absolve themselves from any responsibility.

what has my conscience or anyone elses on here got to do with it? The Government have taken children and are taking more from the camps who have relatives here.The jungle and other camps will be shut down this week, but the French have a duty of care to all children but have been dragging their feet on paperwork, from what we hear.

it may not be very safe, and it will also be uncomfortable to live there,( why France have allowed them to is another matter, which nobody, either on here or in RL has answered.) However, it is still not the same as the Kinder-transport.I think your imagination is running away with you Penstemmon about them all being terrified young men, as we know that a big proportion of those at Calais are economic migrants.

There is every comparison with Kindertransport children, roses, but if it eases your conscience, carry on...

I totally agree Granny23. Rampant British nationalism is to be deplored. Nationalism is about dividing people into us and them -us and the foreigners. All types of nationalism are dangerous and deplorable-and that includes Scottish nationalism.

Roses it is not very safe in Calais for vulnerable and unaccompanied youngsters. I would not want any of my teen or even 20s aged nephews to have to be there. Easy from our safe homes to create stories about who these young people are to ease our conscience and not think too hard about them because they are probably really just Islamic fundamentalists and not terrified young men fleeing being press ganged into fundamentalist Islamic groups and forced to kill their friends, families and neighbours.

We can't be all that bad as a country, otherwise why do so many want to get in here.Yes, it does seem to be the trendy thing to knock Western society by those enjoying all our freedoms.

There is NO comparison at all with the Kinder-transport children, it's a different scenario as others point out,these children are in a safe country where there is no fear of being killed.They want to be in England, and if they really do have relatives here and we agree to take them, fair enough.

At least some MPs are now talking about these ' children'

Both, pen. You really haven't been aware of it? Gosh. Probably needs a new thread.

I think it does matter, dj. If things are improving, proportionally, that's good and maybe we're getting something right. If things are worsening, that's bad, and we need to know so that we can make changes.

I accept what you were 'just saying'. I just said something that was important to me too.

How does 'Anti-West' manifest itself? I have not really been aware of this 'trend' Do you mean politically/ culturally or something else?

Doesn't matter, bags.
A refugee is a refugee, no matter what percentage of the population they are.
I was just saying that there are as many refugees in the world as there are people in this country.
We tend to think of refugees as just those few millions causing problems in the EU. There are a lot more.

It's trendy to be anti-west nowadays. Especially in some western political circles.

Disclaimer.

My last post tells you nothing about my attitude to refugees. I'm just pointing out something that should be considered when making statements that you expect people to accept as significant.

It is not 'the country' people have contempt for but the decisions and attitudes of various governments! I do not believe in the phrase 'My country right or wrong!'

What I love about this nation is how it has so many kind and caring people prepared to look out for and support the under dog and those in difficult circumstances, fleeing war, seeking a better life for their families.. the underlying Christian cultural heritage.. though I am not Christian.

Has the world population increased by the same proportion as the total number of refugees since 1953? Or, putting it the other way, is the proportion of refugees now smaller, the same, or larger than it was in 1953? When we know that we'll know whether the situation has improved, stayed the same, or worsened. Just claiming that the number of refugees in the world now is nearly the same as the population of the UK doesn't take into account global population growth, which may in fact have outstripped the growth in refugee numbers.

Exactly Ana, as you can see, it really angers me!

So why are we more mean-spirited now?
What changed?

I watched a video by UNHCR today. They started in 1950 and hoped to be disbanded by 1953.

The number of refugees in the world is now nearly the same as the population of the UK.

It never ceases to amaze me what contempt some posters seem to feel for this country.