Foreigners

I doubt very much whether there will be any such clause. Doctors have to pay back their student loans just like anybody else. Unless they are sponsored as medical students by the NHS, I don't see how such an agreement could be enforced.

Oh, I missed that bit Ddil

I don't think there is anything in law, but some employers may have a certain prejudice which they should not allow to show.

Why are you so sure, roses?

...and how about: 'if you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere'?

Icanhandthemback I am sure the new thinking on doctors trained here from now on, will have a new ruling saying that they must serve the NHS for four years at least.Since it takes so much money to train a doctor, that seems only right and fair.

@Jalima

Smileless wrote that her son has Australian citizenship. Shouldn't all citizens be treated equally? I'm not talking about people with visas and foreign cditizenship.

Once a country has granted citizenship, surely the person should have equal rights - they have equal responsibilities.

Should I confess that DH reads the Daily Mail and our dear friends are Ugandan Asians? Must send him to a DMA meeting to confess.
Now there's a conundrum for you Bluecat

I read an eclectic mix myself - or quite often none at all.

to the National Front and the more swivel-eyed lunatic fringe of the Daily Mail.
now that post is a bit of prejudice if ever there was

Organisations are asked to fill in forms already asking about their percentages of the Disabled, Ethnicity, etc so asking about people working within the company who do not hold British Passports is just going to be another statistic. I think alongside this, the Govt should be asking the DWP to alert them about whole British Families who have never worked a day in their lives and have no intention of doing so.
I am all for training more British Dr's, Nurses and other professionals we need but I think they should work in the NHS/UK for a certain number of years or pay back their training costs. If we want Brits to be put first, there needs to be a responsibility from them too. At the moment we have positive discrimination for the disabled and ethnic minorities, so why not British workers?

There is no undercutting of wages in Australia either - even backpackers are paid at least the minimum wage (a lot higher than ours at A$23.00 per hour) plus pro rata holiday pay plus the employer pays into the pension scheme (which they can withdraw if and when they leave the country as a lump sum).

So it is different to the UK in that Australian-born workers cannot claim that employers are taking advantage of immigrants, whether casual or permanent, and paying them lower wages. The law is strict and the paperwork has to be in meticulous order.

People may disagree with the Australian way but it seems to be advantageous to both Australian-born workers and migrant workers.

My husband is a naturalised British citizen, as a Ugandan-born Asian expelled from the country under Idi Amin. He has been a citizen of this country now for nearly 40 years and has worked very hard and paid taxes for all of them. When he applied for jobs, should he have been refused them because a UK-born citizen was also applying? No doubt that happened - maybe more than once - but I didn't think anyone thought it was morally right. Aren't all citizens supposed to be equal?

One of the nasty effects of Brexit is that it seems to legitimised the nationalist.....well, let's be honest and call it racist...rhetoric that was once confined to the National Front and the more swivel-eyed lunatic fringe of the Daily Mail. The atmosphere of the country has soured, and for what? As someone has already said, how will all this solve the illegal-immigrants- taking- our-jobs issue? If they are illegal, they are already evading the existing rules, so what difference will new ones make? The people who will be hit are the legal immigrants who contribute to our economy and our society.

Maybe instead of counting foreigners and quizzing people about their origins, we might try concentrating on the question of how Brexit is actually going to be implemented, as no-one (including the government) really seems to know. All the waffle about "soft Brexit" as compared to "hard Brexit" and our supposed ability to somehow leave without damaging our economy isn't going to get us very far. Maybe that's why the focus is on the usual easy target, i.e. all these damned foreigners...

Good posts Jalima this all needs a bit of common sense, there are those who worry too much about these things, not everything is done with sinister intent.

If the immigrants are here legally, they will be seen on the radar. If from the EU they have a legal right to work and to pay taxes. From anywhere else they should have work permits, and coming in as asylum seekers (which I think is what you are complaining about) they are not allowed to work until they have the correct papers.

If they are getting less pay than someone doing the same job for the same firm, or working without a work permit, then the law is being broken. They should have the same employment conditions as anyone else, and anyone who suspects they are not should report them.

All those foreign nurses in the hospitals are employed at the same rate as their UK co-workers - send them home and you could have no nurse when you need one. Previous generations said much the same about the Irish, but Irish navvies built our roads and canals, and vast numbers of us now have Irish blood in our veins.

FGS
The forms are designed to help children who may not speak English as their first language, the same as their intention in Wales where they have been used already.

Stirring up a hornets' nest and stoking up fear is just as bad as people who go round shouting that all immigrants should go home.

Commonsense and reasonableness seem to be flying out of the window to be replaced by hysteria because people lose sight of the facts and what has actually been said.

Good job as far as I'm concerned. Surely everyone knows wages have dropped because the immigrants will take less pay. It's about time our own people were put first. We have far too many immigrants here already as far as I'm concerned. They should be sending hundreds of thousands of them back, not letting more in. Many parts of England are unrecognisable now because they have more immigrants than British people. For instance London where I was born and brought up. The town I come from in East London is unrecognisable now. And look at all the horrible crimes that have been committed by some of the immigrants, both here and in other European countries. Many immigrants are wanted in their own countries by the police and yet have been allowed here so they obviously haven't been checked.

suzied your arguments re your DIL are rather a red herring.

Anybody taking Australian citizenship has to pay a great deal of money, take a test and make a pledge of commitment to the country. It shouldn't matter where they were born.
It is not a prerequisite for a job there, although obviously an employer will think twice about offering a permanent position to someone who may not be offered citizenship. It is not a case of taking Australian citizenship as it is not an automatic right.
DD is not an Australian citizen but was offered a permanent position.

Try living up here...it's rampant Scottish Nationalism.

Washerwoman I had to fill out forms like these before joining a once a week art class, a French conversation class ..... including my sexual orientation (which I declined to answer).
I also had to fill one in about 15 years ago when working for the Civil Service - and got a printed sheet back solemnly telling me all about my country of birth, town of birth, ethnic origin, etc etc etc. As if I didn't know already! because I had just told them.

Have other people's grandchildren had to fill in these forms?
Well, to be strictly truthful, no, I expect their parents did it because, although DGD1 is very competent at writing, DGD2 can only write a few words as yet.
I don't think it is something that children should worry about, parents (and grandparents) should accentuate the positives if they ask questions and deal with any queries, not make children anxious with unfounded fears.

Have other people's grandchildren had to fill in these forms?
Presumably yes, because it was first introduced in Wales and mine go to Welsh schools.

Of course I don't mind, Jalima - I gave the link because it's all relevant and would take too long to copy and paste!

Smileless Is it actually enshrined in law that Australian-born applicants for teaching posts have priority over naturalised citizens?

I don't know about Australian law (DD is a teacher over there) we have the ludicrous situation in the UK where an EU nurse does not have to take an examination in English at their own expense before they can work in the NHS but Australian born nurses have to pay to take an English examination to prove they can speak English before they can work here in the NHS. £550 I believe.

We have always welcomed foreigners Apart from native Australians who were there first so has Australia!! Most Australians originate from all over the world, went for opportunities and to try for a better life.
Although I agree their present stance on refugees and would-be illegal migrants is something that needs to be addressed.

From Ana's link:
A system designed for Welsh schools to assess their pupils’ skills in English will be used by schools in England from September to decide the proficiency levels of pupils who speak a different language at home.

Currently, analysis of EAL pupil performance is binary. A child taking SATs at primary school with only basic comprehension can be in the same category as a child who speaks English fluently, simply because they both speak another language at home.

Sameena Choudry, founder of Equitable Education, which offers consultancy on reducing achievement gaps between ethnic groups, says: “EAL pupils are not homogenous. You could be comparing a fully bilingual child, daughter of a German banker, with somebody who has just come from the Czech Republic with a Roma background, or a second or third generation child where another language is spoken in the house.”

It does not sound at all sinister, rather it seems to be designed to help and make allowances in SATS assessments for children whose first language is not English.
I know from a friend how difficult it is to teach a multi-lingual class of infants in English, with the additional task of teaching them Welsh.

I hope you don't mind me using that Ana, not everyone likes links.

Sorry suzied. I misunderstood. Once people are here. No second class citizens.

there are 2 different arguments going here - I didn't say we should have uncontrolled migration (does anyone?) - but the idea that we should discriminate against those who are already here legally is what I object to and what some posters seem to support.