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Brexit and power to the people

(437 Posts)
whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 08:18:55

Really interesting court case and day 1 of "The Royal Prerogative"

It basically boils down to whether a minister -in this case Amino 1 - can remove rights established by an act of parliament.

It raises questions of "fundamental constitutional importance about the limits of the power of the executive"

Pannick, QC for the challenger, said " this court is not concerned with the political wisdom of withdrawal" "The government was wrong to suggest the legal challenge was merely camouflage to prevent Brexit"

Pannick's client the court was advised had again received threats, abuse and insults.

A further QC - representing the people
Argued" the constitution of our parliamentary democracy, unwritten as it is , is predicated on the sovereignty of parliament and the courts working as arbiter. Notification of withdrawal leads to the removal of the rights of UK citizens.
Chambers QC argued that the referendum did not replace the UK system of parliamentary democracy"
If the government triggered A50 it would be setting itself up as "de facto legislature"
This is a case about what is legally required, not what is legally expedient.

Good ain't it?

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 18:07:57

Even Oliver Cromwell quoted on this.

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 18:05:24

ukhumanrightsblog.com/2016/11/03/parliament-prevails/

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 18:03:45

Three QCs are not many people to save democracy.

Ana Thu 03-Nov-16 18:02:24

What do you mean, whitewave? I thought the two people named had brought the case to Court. Surely they didn't need three QCs.

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 18:01:54

That's the one that is asking for crowd-funding.
I think some people would get upset if it was funded through public money.

whitewave Thu 03-Nov-16 17:54:45

There are a number of people with at least 3 QCs representing them. One QC represents a crowd of people who have clubbed together to fight the case.

Ana Thu 03-Nov-16 17:42:31

And now Holyrood might join in!

'Nichola Sturgeon says that Holyrood could join businesswoman Gina Miller and hair dresser Deir Dos Santos as "participants in that case" when it goes to the Supreme Court in early December.'

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 17:42:22

You don't have to if you don't want to, Ana. Somehow I don't think you will.

Ana Thu 03-Nov-16 17:35:15

I find it very odd that the public should be asked to pay towards the court case!

rosesarered Thu 03-Nov-16 17:33:11

I think he would consider himself too dapper to do the I'm A Celebrity thing.

rosesarered Thu 03-Nov-16 17:31:45

So, you're not keen on him then Tegan grin

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 17:27:48

r.mail.crowdjustice.co.uk/h4aghewynale3d.html

Crowdfunding the court case.

Tegan Thu 03-Nov-16 17:24:33

Even the wonderful thought of him lying in a pit full off scorpions/poisonous snakes etc would not be enough to make me want to see his loathsome face again [yuk].

Welshwife Thu 03-Nov-16 16:38:48

I saw a report which claimed he said he was not doing the jungle as he was taking up a post in Trump's Govt!

granjura Thu 03-Nov-16 16:35:20

c**p programme - but oh I wish he could be got out of here indeed sad

Anya Thu 03-Nov-16 16:18:37

I also heard a snippet of gossip - Farage is being considered as a contestant on 'I'm a celebrity get me out of here' grin

Never watch rubbish like this usually but I'd make an exception in that case!

Anya Thu 03-Nov-16 16:16:35

DD Listening to a debate on Radio 4 I think...though it could have been another channel as GS1's been fiddling with car radio again.

Welshwife Thu 03-Nov-16 15:15:17

It was Farage Jen - he said a 4% majority would not be accepted and he would carry on until another referendum was held - whereas a 60/40 split either way would put an end to it.

Sauce for the goose comes to mind!

whitewave Thu 03-Nov-16 15:06:30

As far as I can see the Royal Perogative only covers certain areas - and again as far as I understand it the only possible area that this can be invoked is under foreign affairs which still come under the RP. But as the EU legislation has now become part of the UK domestic law then I don't see how the RP can be used.

durhamjen Thu 03-Nov-16 14:49:08

I thought that Farage had said that he would challenge it if remain won by the same percentage. Or was it Johnson?
Anyway, Brexit would not have just accepted it.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/11/03/article-50-for-one-sweet-moment-britain-is-sober-again

'Today’s ruling brings us back to something approaching normality. The prime minister cannot use ancient royal powers to force through the most radical possible interpretation of a marginal popular vote. Parliament must be consulted on actions which will have a deep and lasting effect on the country. Things should proceed calmly, purposefully and patiently on matters of great importance.'

daphnedill Thu 03-Nov-16 14:47:35

Confused! I thought the government is going to lodge an appeal to the Supreme Court too. Where have you read that the referendum result will be part of the considerations, Anya?

Whatever the outcome (and I suspect that parliament will vote to trigger Article 50), the point is that a decision such as this should not be made by a handful of ministers without debate/consultation/vote in parliament. That really is the beginning of a very slippery slope constitutionally.

Anya Thu 03-Nov-16 14:30:57

I thought the government would lodge an appeal with the Supreme Court.

Penstemmon Thu 03-Nov-16 14:29:10

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857785

Penstemmon Thu 03-Nov-16 14:28:03

So.. it has to go to Parliament.....

Anya Thu 03-Nov-16 14:18:03

So off to the Supreme Court where the referendum result will be part of the considerations.