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Brexit and power to the people

(436 Posts)
daphnedill Fri 14-Oct-16 10:24:01

@thatbags

My understanding (for what it's worth) is that the argument isn't that a withdrawal from the EU would "lead to the removal of the rights of UK citizens" but the notification of the withdrawal. In other words, that constitutionally parliament represents the people and is the only body with the right to vote on the withdrawal, not Theresa May and her cabinet, who are claiming that they have the right to make decisions without the support of parliament.

It's an important constitutional issue, not just with reference to Brexit, but to any future decisions the PM should make. It's the beginning of a slippery slope, if PMs are allowed to make decisions without putting them to a parliamentary vote.

A vote would, of course, put many MPs in a very difficult position. If their own opinion differed from their constituents, which would be the case for many, it could mean personal political suicide.

rosesarered Fri 14-Oct-16 09:15:17

Here we go again! ( enjoy!)

whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 09:13:04

Yes mamie

whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 09:12:33

Lord Wolfson -Next chief ex. and Tory peer who was a strong leave supporter, has warned May that hard brexit- a stance favoured by May- will isolate Britain and could destroy the economy

Mamie Fri 14-Oct-16 09:07:23

One example would be the right to the freedom to live, work and retire in other EU countries. This is something that some of us hold very dear and would want our children and grandchildren to benefit from as well.

whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 08:58:55

Amigo!!!!!!

whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 08:57:35

Daphne well
Amino should have read Amio - phone keeps correcting me. That is my querky description of the 3Brexiters.
1 is Davis.
The court case is about the Royal Prerogative and sovereignty and who is entitled to withdraw the UK from the EU.
It's people V the government and about our constitution.
The challengers are two individuals and "the people" represented by 3QCs
Hope that helps.
Boring maybe but I love this sort of stuff

whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 08:50:35

bags it isn't my argument it is the Qcs
As far as I understand
The EU has instilled rights to the UK citizens through various treaties etc. Like hours directive etc, which have been enshrined in UK law through the peoples representatives in Parliament. The argument therefore is that only parliament can take these rights away, and not some arcane royal Prerogative (my words)

DaphneBroon Fri 14-Oct-16 08:50:09

Perhaps I did not get enough sleep last night, but I don't understand whitewave
Who is Amino 1?
What is this court case?
Who is "the challenger" and what are they challenging?
Maybe a link (to the Ladybird version for my befuddled brain this morning) might enlighten me? smile

thatbags Fri 14-Oct-16 08:45:45

I follow the argument about the importance of parliamentary democracy. What I don't understand from your post, ww, is why a withdrawal from the EU would "lead to the removal of the rights of UK citizens".

UK citizens had rights before the EU existed. UK Parliamentary democracy existed before the EU.

whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 08:18:55

Really interesting court case and day 1 of "The Royal Prerogative"

It basically boils down to whether a minister -in this case Amino 1 - can remove rights established by an act of parliament.

It raises questions of "fundamental constitutional importance about the limits of the power of the executive"

Pannick, QC for the challenger, said " this court is not concerned with the political wisdom of withdrawal" "The government was wrong to suggest the legal challenge was merely camouflage to prevent Brexit"

Pannick's client the court was advised had again received threats, abuse and insults.

A further QC - representing the people
Argued" the constitution of our parliamentary democracy, unwritten as it is , is predicated on the sovereignty of parliament and the courts working as arbiter. Notification of withdrawal leads to the removal of the rights of UK citizens.
Chambers QC argued that the referendum did not replace the UK system of parliamentary democracy"
If the government triggered A50 it would be setting itself up as "de facto legislature"
This is a case about what is legally required, not what is legally expedient.

Good ain't it?