Brexit and power to the people

At last, a Brexiter has admitted to me that they regret their vote as they had no idea it would lead to this. I actually felt sorry for her. I wonder how many more are thinking they were duped into believing it would all be relatively painless; OK a slight dip in the £ and then we'd be trading with the rest of the world and all would be well. I asked one business woman what was wrong with being the 5th highest economy in the world as we'd achieved that as a member state. Her reply? 'We want more.'

I lost count long ago of how many times I heard/read the comment, 'They need us more than we need them'. What utter nonsense and it's beginning to dawn on people that we can expect no special favours.

I do wish EU leaders had sent DC back home with something more substantial in his brief case and none of this would have happened.

Would seem quite possible if a few more resigned as the majority is so small - a 66/33 majority might then be attainable. Jen was just thinking laterally !
The manifestos of the parties should make interesting reading.

From durhamjen's post of 14.34.

It is now being suggested that other Tory MPs could follow him to force a general election.

Good.

So it must be possible, or perhaps dj' just rambling...

Well not sure how likely, as the Tories brought in the 5 year rule which states that for there to be a GE before the 5 years are up there has to be. 2/3rds parliamentary vote for one.

A lot of Conservatives would like there to be a GE too, in the hope that it would increase their majority.

As they're currently ahead of Labour by 16% in the polls that seems perfectly possible.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-win-next-general-election-housing-crisis-alex-morton_uk_581c79a2e4b0c2e24aaf56aa

Trump was supported by a Ku Klux Klan paper. He actually told them he didn't want their support, whitewave. Can you imagine that; I thought he wanted all the support he could get.

djen why on earth do you say 'good' [that there may be a GE] when the Conservatives will win again.You can't think surely that Labour under Corbyn will get in?Blimey, perhaps you really do think that.

Farage is talking about a great betrayal. Not sure we can take too much notice of his opinions given that he supports Trump

I think May is fast realising that she is not Thatcher ll. There was a lot more to Thatcher's steeliness than being a woman.

luck Miller voted to leave. Miller is a Brexiter

She voted to bring back sovereignty to Parliament.

What the little reactionary clique in government tried to do was to by-pass parliament. Miller saw this as an affront to representative democracy

The split in this country is getting worse it seems to me. The vitriol is getting worse.

Where is the leadership to bring this to a halt? May's instinct is always to say nothing in the first instant, and as PM whilst we do not want her to shoot off her cuff we do expect integrity and statesmanship.

Farage himself stated all the way that a 48/52 win for remain would have had to be challenged as too close, did he not.

Luckylegs, if the vote had been for remain- it would't have had to go through Parliamentary approval as it would have been the Status Quo.

Luckylegs, if you study any text about invoking article 50- it always says clearly 'in the UK this would require the approval of Parliament' - this has always been so. British Constitution, British Law, British Parliamentary Democracy- and clear from day one. That was widely available to all who took time to study the Constitution and Art. 50- and many of us put link after link, and expert videos and articles - which were all poopooed with 'ah rubbish, don't want to read, don't want to know, don't want to listen - experts are rubbish doommongers...

Experts explained what the British Constitution demands, under British Law under British Parliamentary democracy.

The Swiss system has referendi which are binding, however small the vote is.

Sorry Pogs, been out all day.

'"But at the last minute, the EU said 'sorry no can't do- as it would set a precedent and we want to show we are tough on free movement being part of the deal - and with Brexit in mind- we just can't waiver one little bit."

This sort of behaviour, showing of strength and power to over rule a democratic vote by countries in the EU shows they are worried the tide is turning against them.'

Not at all - they do not want to over rule a democratic vote at all - they are saying 'if you are a member of the Club, you have to play by the same rules. If you don't wish to, fine- but then you will have to leave the club and the advantages that go with being a member'- it makes total sense. Otherwise, no-one can have their cake and eat it, and pick and choose the rules they want to follow, and those they don't ... You can't play Monopoly or Golf with everyone picking their own rules to suit, can you?

Remainers that want to obstruct Brexit are looking for any out any way they can. Why did Gina Miller seek to delay the process. A referendum is not advisory, it is the will of the people. If you do not believe in the voting system and democracy, do not live in a country has has those values, feel free to go and live in a dictatorship. I am fed up with the minority especially those with money and a knowledge of the technicalities of the law making these challenges about anything that doesn't suit their objectives.. I feel the same about those ambulance chasing lawyers. No doubt I will be vilified for my views by those unhappy remainers who want to rerun the referendum until they get the result they seek. If it has resulted in stay, we would have respected democracy.

Iain Duncan Smith said that Phillips' resignation was nothing to do with Brexit. He obviously hadn't read the resignation letter before he said that.
It is now being suggested that other Tory MPs could follow him to force a general election.
Good.

'A statement from the body, which represents more than 15,000 barristers, urged Ms Truss to condemn "serious and unjustified attacks on the judiciary".

"The Bar Council of England and Wales condemns the serious and unjustified attacks on the judiciary arising out of the Article 50 litigation,” the statement said.

"It regrets the lack of public statement by the Lord Chancellor condemning these attacks and calls upon the Lord Chancellor to do so as a matter of urgency.

“A strong independent judiciary is essential to a functioning democracy and to upholding the rule of law." '

Liz Truss's response was “The independence of the judiciary is the foundation upon which our rule of law is built and our judiciary is rightly respected the world over for its independence and impartiality.”

But she added: “In relation to the case heard in the High Court, the Government has made it clear it will appeal to the Supreme Court." '

So that's alright, then.

Took No 10 long enough

She had to be told to by the Bar Council, according to the Telegraph - just to prove I don't only read the Guardian and the Mail.

Truss/May have just issued a luke warm statement supporting the judiciary. Very limp wristed, and not sufficient considering the vitriol that has been issued over the past 24 hours.

Gosh there are some unpleasant people around.

A copy of the resignation letter from the Tory MP/QC to say why he resigned and couldn't just give up the Tory whip.

i2.wp.com/voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/161105-Stephen-Phillips-resignation-letter1.png?w=540

He could no longer consider himself a Tory!

Parliamentary scrutiny is not just about Brexit.
Liam Fox bypassed it to agree to CETA. It should have been debated in parliament.

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/european-scrutiny-committee/inquiries/parliament-2015/ceta-16-17/

Referendi can be set up in a number of ways - they can be binding but just need to say so. Normally referendums which are binding have a set percentage of the electorate needing to vote (75%) and the result to be a much higher and definite percentage split such as 60/40 being the more usual one. This is why a couple of Irish ones failed and the point in question being tweaked before they got through. The Eu advice in holding a referendum is quite clear on this. Had these points been in place when Cameron set the referendum up it would have failed on all counts - this is what is causing a lot of the feeling by many of those who wished to remain. It was an ill thought out piece of legislation and why Cmaeron ran for the hills immediately.

Laws still need to go through the elected EU Parliament and Juncker et al have not actually changed anything yet.