Theresa May 3

Who knows? possibly some of both.

petra
It's interesting to see how the Express' reporting of Cecilia Malstrom's opinion is different from the Telegraph, which reports:

•Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, in Davos
19 January 2017 • 9:18pm
Europe's trade chief has warned in stark terms that Britain will start at 18th place down the list of countries trying to negotiate a trade deal with the EU and will face a series of extremely difficult negotiations after Brexit.
Cecilia Malmström, the EU trade commissioner, said the UK would have to withdraw from all of the EU’s 38 trade agreements with other countries, and can only begin fresh talks once it has actually left the union.
Britain cannot barge its way to the head of the queue. “We are negotiating 15-16 trade deals at the moment so we are busy,” she said. “It will take a couple of years for sure. It will not be done overnight. There will be some sort of transition period,” she said, speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
Roberto Azevêdo, head of the World Trade Organisation, said it will not be as simple as people imagine for Britain to fall back on a minimalist WTO arrangement if it leaves the EU customs union as well as the EU single market.
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Mr Azevêdo said the UK can “cut and paste” certain elements but it will not necessarily be a seamless transition. “It is very important what the terms of the divorce are. Only once they have severed the EU relation can they negotiate,” he said.
“The more the UK wants to do, the more complicated it is. There are tricky issues and they will have to negotiate with 160 parties."
The warnings came as trade leaders prepared for the advent of the Trump era, fearing a tit-for-tat escalation of tariff barriers if the new president presses ahead with his threats.

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/01/19/uk-will-bottom-brussels-trade-queue-warns-eu-trade-chief/

I wonder which version is true

Jess
You are confusing ethnicity with nationality and cultural identity.
Ethnicity is based upon not just culture but shared ancestry, although some people for political reasons are trying to eliminate that aspect of the meaning.

New Zealand, as part of the New World, is nothing like European countries where long standing autochthonous populations form the nations. It is a country developed and formed by relatively recent immigration. Even the indigenous Maoris only arrived there around the 13th century.

No POGS I am certainly not in favour of breaking up the UK any more than breaking up the EU.

Both the 2014 and 2016 referendums were allowed by Cameron without any thought of safeguards. It should never be possible for such a momentous decision to be made on the basis of a scant majority of those who turned out on a single day.

I think that, at a minimum, those who want to destroy what we have should require at least 50% of the electorate to vote for it, eg the leavers should require at least two thirds of the votes on a 75% turnout.

In view of the astromonic cost of leaving and the potential damage likely to be done, the presumption ought to be in favour of the status quo.

I regard David Cameron as a reckless gambler who should have learned his mistake after the Scottish referendum was as close as 55-45. He didn't. He prioritised caving in to the swivel-eyed elements in the Tory party and what he called "fruitcakes" in UKIP. In spite of some of the good policies enacted when he was in coalition with the LibDems, I do not believe that history will judge him kindly.

20/1/17 at 9.51 Mair you typed this:
The idea that all the people of the world have African origins around 100 million years ago before the peopling of the world took place somehow 'negates' modern day ethnic identities is utter nonsense. All mammals evolved from small shrew like animals and yet we are now over five thousand species!

A person's ethnic identity has nothing to do with evolution, with species and very little to do with genetics.
I have met British people who had a black ethnic identity that looked pretty un-black to me.
And I have met British people who looked black and had a white ethnic identity.

In NZ there are loads of people with a Maori ancestor or two. Consequently there are some people who look to me somewhat or very Maori who have white ethnic identities and others with blond hair and blue eyes who have a Maori ethnic identity.

Varian

'How do you think the Brexiteers would have reacted if the narrow vote had been the other way round and we were now headed for membership of the Euro, a United States of Europe and all the other extreme Remain measures which Farage et al used as a threat?'

Am I correct in believing you are a poster who wants Scottish Independence? I apologise if I am incorrect but it doesn't matter particularly.

The Scottish Parliament if it gains Independence, are prepared to accept the 'possibility' of having to accept the Euro, being a fully accepting member of the need for a 'Federal State of Europe', further acceptance of giving power for further EU Law and regulation over to the European Union.

Scotland has voted against becoming an independent country by 55% to 45%.

The Scottish Parliament won't take into account the 45% of voters who did not want Independence will they.

It always strikes a note of hypocrisy when one set of referendum results are used in favour of something we believe in, yet on a reciprocal basis they are not even democratically recognised.



Where is the voice of the 45 % in this instance going on 'Remainers Logic'?

Another 'muttering' from Davos. Cecilia Malstrom, eu trade commissioner said: we *will do a deal with Britain, we won't let trade fall off a cliff, and the deal will be done in 2 years
Not the sort of 'muttering' that doom mangers want to hear, is it?

Mair- the 'horrible, pompous Gina Miller' simply believes that key decisions should be taken by Parliament. Isn't that what the seekers of a return of sovereignty wanted?

No. What we want is a return of democracy. That is only partially represented by Westminster, barely at all by Brussels.

We do not want even a British parliament over ruling referenda.

Varian claimed

At least 48% or Brits (probably more now) want to stay in the EU, yet are to be subjected to this destructive extreme hard Brexit

She is incorrect. At least 48% of the 72% of British citizens who voted in the referendum wanted to remain.

The latest SKY Poll suggests that number is even lower now!
news.sky.com/story/sky-news-poll-britons-back-exit-from-the-eu-single-market-10732707

Most want out of the single market too.

Is it surprising given the vile anti British comments coming from the EU?

Mair- the 'horrible, pompous Gina Miller' simply believes that key decisions should be taken by Parliament. Isn't that what the seekers of a return of sovereignty wanted?

Errrmmm...an interest in genealogy doesn't necessarily make one knowledgeable about genetics. I must say I haven't seen much evidence of knowledge.

Gratuitous abuse again I note from DJ.

'Why is this thread even talking about this subject?'

Lord knows. A happy and welcomed diversion from answering questions maybe?

At least 48% or Brits (probably more now) want to stay in the EU, yet are to be subjected to this destructive extreme hard Brexit.

How do you think the Brexiteers would have reacted if the narrow vote had been the other way round and we were now headed for membership of the Euro, a United States of Europe and all the other extreme Remain measures which Farage et al used as a threat?

Ah well! You know how threads drift.

So you agree that people of the same species have equal rights to live where they wish?

The term 'race' to classify certain groups didn't become popular until the nineteenth century, when certain people tried to prove that Europeans were superior.

The people who now inhabit the UK have never belonged to a single static group. Even today, there are different genetic markers in different parts of the country.

Yes Maizie written by a Brit who wants to stay IN the EU.

Why is this thread even talking about this subject?
Isn't T May and the handling of Brexit diverting enough?

Just trying to use terms you'll understand, Mair

I see, so you used a term you consider incorrect to express exactly what concept?
You seem very confused.

More on Theresa May's speech. From Vanity Fair (though written by a Brit, before anyone picks me up on it. And, I posted yesterday on this before I'd read the article this morning)

The Death of the British Dream
How Theresa May got away with an extreme policy that few ever really wanted.

On Tuesday, Theresa May made an unusual choice for the backdrop of her historic announcement regarding the terms of Britain’s departure from the European Union. The prime minister chose not Parliament but rather a lectern at Lancaster House, the setting, astonishingly enough, where Margaret Thatcher, the hero of every Tory right-winger, outlined the largely British notion for a single market back in 1988. Thatcher’s role in the European project ranks pretty high in the extensive annals of conservative amnesia, but it was May’s contempt for the elected representatives of the British people that was most significant. It apparently occurred to almost no one that she should be making her speech to Parliament, whose sovereignty and independence the Brexit supporters claimed to champion during the referendum campaign, rather than to the media and European ambassadors.

That was the insult. The injury came when May suggested that, while Parliament would be allowed to vote on the eventual deal, Britain would still likely leave the E.U. regardless. She would not even agree to involve Parliament in the terms of the Brexit negotiations. It is difficult to imagine the equivalent actions in the United States given the difference in our political systems, but there would surely be uproar, and maybe insurrection, if the president trampled over both houses in a similar manner.

www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/the-death-of-the-british-dream

Errrmmm...an interest in genealogy doesn't necessarily make one knowledgeable about genetics. I must say I haven't seen much evidence of knowledge.

"The concept of race as applied to human beings is a totally false one. All human beings are the same species."

Strawman.
Nobody claims 'race' is a synonym for 'species'. Everyone agrees humans, including our Neanderthal ancestors, are the same 'species'.

But I dont think a thread about May should be wandering so far off topic.

Lefties don't half tie themselves up in knots obsessing about 'race' while claiming there is no such thing

Just trying to use terms you'll understand, Mair.

By which criteria do you judge Theresa May's to be good or very good, roses?

The FT and other serious newspapers don't share your opinion.

'influenenced by something far more sinister'.
Mair said that she was interested in genealogy, as quite a few others are on Gransnet....... so she is knowledgeable on the subject.

JessM
The concept of "race" is old fashioned and scientifically outdated

Hold your horses Jess. What you are saying is highly controversial no scientitific 'certainty' at all, indeed a matter of politics more than science.

But it was Maizie D who raised the word, claiming we are a 'racially diverse nation'.

Lefties don't half tie themselves up in knots obsessing about 'race' while claiming there is no such thing!