Theresa May 3

A lot of British people are in low paid work too and many immigrant people are in well paid jobs - ones that there are insufficient British people educated in the right subjects to do

But that is an argument for selective immigration, such as the 'highly skilled migrants program, not one for allowing uncontrolled immigration of immigrants who take well paid jobs which we do have British people qualified to do.

It's especially damaging for young grads and NQs. A building contractor for example may choose a Polish plumber with ten years experience over a NQ British plumber. An IT firm may prefer a software engineer from the EU who is older and has gained some of the industry standard qualifications than a young graduate with a degree in Computer science.

Of course young Polish workers have to suffer none of this foreign competition back home, because they dont have many immigrants and very few foreigners speak Polish. It is actually a curse for us that English is the lingua franca of the world now! Even former colonial powers France and Spain do not face the scale of forign comptition from bilinguals that Brits do.

POGS. Apology gladly accepted and I apologise in return.

I do understand what you are saying about traffickers and gang masters. Who can forget the dreadful 2004 incident in Morecambe Bay where 23 Chinese cockle pickers were drowned.

MaizieD

You are correct I did mix you up with trisher so I will apologise for that.

I will not if you don't mind apologise for answering the charge of 'obsessing' .

A lot of British people are in low paid work too and many immigrant people are in well paid jobs - ones that there are insufficient British people educated in the right subjects to do.

I would re-iterate that there have been NO prosecutions for paying less than the minimum wage under the Tories. They prefer to let people be exploited and bang on about their randomly-selected targets for immigration and then fail to meet them because the economy in the SE desperately needs immigrants.
I'll grant that some freelance workers in the construction industry are finding their rates undercut. However there has been a desperate lack of investment in construction skills over the years, leading to a sub-contracting culture. It's a sector that has always been problematic - right back to the days when 100s of thousands of Irishmen were being exploited terribly in the 60s and 70s. And many people in the south east have been delighted to engage the service of Polish tradesmen - because they struggled to find a Uk tradesman to quote for a job.
In truth there are no countries that have got a magic formula for controlling immigration to meet their needs perfectly. Look at the States for instance. If Trump sends all the illegal Mexicans home a significant proportion of the crops will rot in the fields.

It's obvious to all that being in the EU has kept wages low ( for low paid work, )
And a lot of EU workers ARE in low paid jobs.

I was asked would I pay more for my fruit and veg? Yes I would, I think it's high time people who pick fruit and veg were paid properly, and lots of businesses have been paying such low wages for years now for this, disgraceful.If the money was better it may be that locals would donthe work, but wherever they come from I want them to be paid properly!

I didn't ask you any question at all, POGs. My post of 13.46 was more an 'aside' really.

I think you're confusing me with Trisher, maybe?

Funny how I am 'obsessing' yet others can raise the subject and can I remind you you, asked me a question and I responded .

Politeness is now obsessing is it, heard it all now.

Maizied

'Of course there is a world of difference but are you saying that stopping immigration will stop such sweatshops operating? '

I did not say that! I was careful to make a point that I was talking about immigrants and 'ANYBODY' else, read my posts please.

I will however conceded that for sweatshops, gang masters, human slavery to survive and flourish they have to get their
'Victim's' from outside of the main stream population. That for the most part is illegal immigrants and not those who are legal immigrants.

I will be polite in hoping you were not twisting my words to make it appear I am anti immigrant/ legal immigration.

I'm finding your carwash obsession a bit odd, POGS. I don't live in the sticks, I just live in a semi rural area in the N.E. There is a Hand carwash doing fine in my local large village/small town, one in the small town down the road and, for all I know, plenty in the larger towns. I've never known a garage up here run its own hand carwash, they just have the big automatic ones.

My DP tells me that the one he uses (I don't use them) is run by immigrants but I don't particularly see that that should make it a) illegal b)undercutting wages or c)taking jobs from locals. In respect of c) there was nothing stopping local lads setting up their own hand carwash business.

I don't think I'll carry on this strangely pointless discussion.

Partisan? Saying that Tory cuts have made public employees a bit thin on the ground?

The fact that I said I didn't understand what you were saying POGS should clearly indicate that I am struggling with what you are saying and therefore that I may misinterpret it. Of course there is a world of difference but are you saying that stopping immigration will stop such sweatshops operating? Because I would argue that desperate people will still come but will be unable to have recourse to the normal methods of complaint and therefore conditions will worsen.

Maisie d

If you live in the sticks I guess it could be difficult to find a garage that does a 'valet service'/hand car wash. I would be surprised if there would be a huge business opportunity however for the type of car wash we are talking about either. For some people of course it is cheaper to so they will use that type of car wash I am talking about without caring, don't want to know, fingers in my ears, LA LA LA LA LA.

' If one has doubts as to the legality of their businesses one could always report them to the local Trading Standards Officer (though Tory cutbacks have probably made these a bit thin on the ground)'

Ever the partisan comment hey [sigh]. They are continually being looked as they are a problem in a lot of cases.

Trisher you asked me questions as you do not understand my post so here goes.
.
'There is a difference between paying low wages and not abiding by regulations, '

Both are wrong, both illegal.

'I'm not sure what you are arguing POGS is it that people don't pay properly for things and are therefore responsible'

Yes, if they knowingly do it.

'It isn't the immigrants fault that businesses fail'

Yes it is but they are the poor sods who have no choice. Paying immigrants, anybody below the national wage immigrant or not, is an obvious advantage for the crud that employs them (I do not mean a person who get's their car washed ) by crud I mean the traffickers, gang masters etc. It stands to reason if an employer abides by the law paying higher wages, taxes, business rates etc. they are not competing on a level playing field are they!

'Or that businesses relying on Immigrants don't pay or treat the people properly.'

You are now making a silly comment because I am not saying that at all. If immigrants, anybody, are employed by a genuine business they are treating their people properly. For heavens sake there is a world of difference between a reputable business and a sweatshop, trafficked operation etc. You are misinterpreting my words.

Our county council has to find £25million in cuts next financial year. That's on top of what has gone on in the past 6/7 years.

No chance then that social services will have more support. That must worry the NHS no relief in sight.

Derailing slightly; the (British) man who recently 'refurbished' the paintwork of my car told me not to use automatic car washes as they damaged the paintwork. Hand car washes are by far preferable. As local garages don't offer a hand car wash service I don't see any reason to 'support' them to damage my car.

If one has doubts as to the legality of their businesses one could always report them to the local Trading Standards Officer (though Tory cutbacks have probably made these a bit thin on the ground)

There is a difference between paying low wages and not abiding by regulations, sadly the people responsible for one are often lax on the other. It isn't the immigrants fault that businesses fail or that employers don't pay them properly. I'm not sure what you are arguing POGS is it that people don't pay properly for things and are therefore responsible? Or that businesses relying on Immigrants don't pay or treat the people properly. All valid arguments but unlikely either will be solved by stopping immigration, in fact more problems are likely to arise because such businesses will use illegal immigrants instead. Resulting in more human trafficking and people smugglers making more money.

Where did I say send them all home, Obviously you are not bothered if the fruit pickers are being exploited, the car washers taking trade away from established garages, as long as it's cheap, I'm surprised I thought the left leaning Remainers thought they were morally superior to Brexiters seems I was wrong it's all about exploiting them, keeping wages low. My daughter in law is Asian by the way.

Just an aside.

Posters are mentioning immigrants washing cars and British people do not want to do such a job.

Some posters on here I remember saying they knowingly and happily use such car washes.

Might I point out that car washes have/are going out of business, 2 near to where we live over the past few years because they cannot compete with the 'cheap wages and not abiding by legal restrictions' that are obviously applicable to them.

Do you know if for example the car washes we now see so widely being used comply with the legal requirements that car wash businesses have to comply with such as this.

'It is illegal to discharge trade effluent into 'surface water or clean water drains' without prior permission.'

Do you know how much the probable immigrant is being paid to wash your car?

Do you know the conditions they are living in?

Are taxes being paid, rates etc.

Don't forget the matter of slave labour and human trafficking either.

Cheap Labour is only good for you but not for businesses, the economy and to be honest I wonder if the people washing your car are happy doing what they are doing, they will probably tell you to your face yes, but I wonder if they are being truthful.

Maybe we should have some sort of test for them dj. Are they still eating pasta?
Can they make a proper Yorkshire pudding (or other local dish)? Do their children have foreign names? I am sure that someone will think up something. Of course if we send everyone back we won't have anywhere decent to eat- there's a really nice Lebanese restaurant near me, come to think of it the Spanish one in town is good as well.

Lots of Italians round Peterborough, too, to work in the brick kilns, so our houses could be built after the war. Don't need them now. Send them all back home, even though it's now third generation. Hope you don't want to go to an Italian restaurant.

As the pound drops it's lowest level for over 30 years (if we discount the sudden drop a bit ago) the immigrant problem may well solve itself as they all head home to work and come here to spend their Euros!
I never understand this 'That's your opinion" well who the hell elses opinion am I likely to be posting?

I buy local veg too, whenever possible, but as my local fields are in East Anglia, it's picked by those dratted furriners.

No, it's not my opinion, Firecracker. It's fact.

There's nothing certain about it at all. In fact, research has shown that it's not the case - not that it's fashionable to take any notice of research or experts.