An oath on British Values?

Why on earth didn't that woman apply for British citizenship in the 24 years she's been living here then? She's married to a British man, has two children by him so really she's been remiss in not applying.

Cake and eat it comes to mind.

You do go on.
However, you are not in charge, but those who are do talk about deporting people.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/28/dutch-woman-with-two-british-children-told-to-leave-uk-after-24-years?CMP=share_btn_tw

I was talking about people wanting to live here agreeing to certain basic principles, if they don't agree with these I am not suggesting they go anywhere as where they are can't be found bad if what is asked is too much fir them to beat. To talk of deporting people, who has mentioned that? The only reason to deport would be for illegals which is a different matter all together. However I do sometimes feel ashamed at the behaviour if some born and bred here and their anti social behaviour, such as people living next door or in the same street as unruly yobs which make law abiding people's lives a misery. You could go on.

I like the idea that the important thing is to keep them pledging, even though they do not believe in what they are pledging.
Like when we agreed to the pledge to abstain from alcohol in the Life Brigade. No idea what it meant then.

Like Zoe Williams says, a lot of those people have broken the oath they signed up to already, and they would definitely have problems agreeing to Javid's.

To be perfectly honest I do think that the government is pandering to the masses.

Throughout history there has been moral panics about various immigrants from Catholics, Irish, Jews, Blacks and now Muslims. If you look at what actually happens given time, the second and third generations are assimilated into the British Cluture and the panic subsides. This is what will happen with the latest lot of immigrants. By the time of the third generation they will perfectly assimilated. Sound exactly the same as the rest of us and probably moaning about the latest lot of immigration.

I liked Zoe Williams' article about the stupid idea:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/18/oath-allegiance-british-values-politics-sajid-javid

Incidentally, MPs, representatives of regional assemblies and the House of Lords, privy counsellors, the armed forces, police officers and judges already have to take an oath.

Sorry, you answered that in your previous post. The answer is that I do not know which binmen should have to swear an oath of allegiance to British values. More importantly, I imagine Sajid Javid hasn't thought that one through either.

I did realise it's a spoof, daphne. I'm not that daft.
This is the real one.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/18/sajid-javid-british-values-oath-casey-review-social-integration

Binmen are council workers, are they not?

'Every public office-holder should swear an oath of allegiance to British values, the communities secretary, Sajid Javid, has said.

The loyalty pledge would be expected to cover elected officials, civil servants, and council workers.'

From the article.

Ahem! That's a spoof.

Binmen very often don't work for the council, because the service has been outsourced. Ours haven't, so does that mean my binmen will be more loyal than those in the neighbouring authority. This is all a big fat red herring to outkipper the kippers.

Mark Carney is Canadian. Is he supposed to pledge an oath of allegiance to the UK?

www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcuts/2016/dec/19/sajid-javid-british-values-oath-what-it-might-look-like

I presume they do djen but mainly I leave their education to the school and their parents apart from an occasional open day when I go and admire their work and a rare request to help with homework if mummy and daddy are at work and I am looking after them.
Otherwise I don't interfere apart from reading their reports which didn't mention anything about British values.

And the other DGC is not British!

What's new about the current proposals is that it is all people who work for any local or national government institution.
I don't think every school teacher had to swear an oath before. Binmen? Councillors?

To be granted British citizenship, people already have to swear the following oath:

"I, [name], [swear by Almighty God] [do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare] that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, her heirs, and successors, according to law."

Since 2004, they also have to pledge the following:

"I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen."

Does anybody know what's so 'new' about the current proposals? What else should any new oath and pledge include?

No, pupils are usually taught about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and how individual rights involve both rights and responsibilities. They discuss how their rights can conflict with the rights of others and whether the rights are, in fact, ethical. The United States refuses to sign a number of human rights conventions, including being one of only three UN countries not to sign the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Pupils are taught about the various ages of consent for sexual activity, buying alcohol and tobacco, driving, etc. They are also taught about the significance of a criminal record for future employment and travelling abroad.

Pupils are also taught about equality law and what that means in practice. They are taught about the definition of theft and assault, etc.

The above are just off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

Life in modern Britain? You mean teach children of the ills of modern Britain ?

British state schools have taught topics such as rights and responsibilities, the law particularly relating to young people, ethics and different cultures for as long as I can remember as part of a PSHE curriculum.

The (not so) hidden agenda here is quite clear and most teachers I know are aware of it. There are faith schools, which do not teach the above, especially if the law conflicts with religious teaching.

If a school is designated as a 'faith school' by the DfE it can promote its own teaching. Catholic schools do this. The schools which have been particularly criticised for not preparing children for life in modern Britain by Ofsted are Jewish and Muslim schools. Creationist and Steiner schools have also faced the same criticism.

My grandchildren and I have so much we talk about but the national caricculum ? no

I presume the teachers of your grandchildren have to teach them about British values, Jalima.

Yes, grannypiper, maybe all MPs should have to sign up to them first. If they break them, is it treasonable?

durhamjen Maybe if our Government want immigrants to abide by British values, those Government ministers need to start abiding by those British values [chgrin]

If I'm deported for being unpatriotic, it will be a bit of a shame, because family history research shows I haven't had any non-English input into my DNA for nearly five centuries.

I have, but I'd have to be forcibly deported to live in France.

Strange to say there's no such thing as British values, as they have been part of the teaching in the national curriculum for over two years.
I think most of us left school a few years ago now
(53 in my case )

Canada or Norway would suit me fine.
When we were on holiday in Cyprus one February we met a lot of Norwegians who had gone for 3 months to escape the Norwegian winter.

Just a thought, of course you may love the cold and snow.

Exactly! Anybody living in the UK has to abide by British law and that's all that's needed.

Even Elizabeth 1 maintained that her subjects were entitled to privacy over their religious beliefs. I know, I know it doesn't really stand up when you look at her actions, but at least she paid lip service to the idea. That was 500 years ago, haven't we learnt anything - what about the enlightenment? Talk of British values and you will get as many ideas what it means as a concept as population. It is a nonsense. The way to produce an inclusive society is to treat the population with respect and care, to ensure that all are subject fairly to the rule of law, (not just those who can't afford to buy their way out of the system, like tax avoiders).

Our Christian heritage is dodgy to say the least if you belonged to any church other than the established Church of England you were liable to persecution until the mid 1800s. People have been executed and imprisoned because they didn't conform, are these the Christian values we are promoting?
Personally I am mostly in favour of the old British values of protest and dissension.