An oath on British Values?

Thanks for the tip, Jalima. (Whispers - they're not Nigerian - they're British.)

Better hadn't mention that there were approximately 30 Hindus in the 2011 census in this electoral ward and I think I possibly know all of them. The ones I know all originally came from Kenya as children - I guess that would make me a real racist.

ps daphnedill
you can talk about them all you like as far as I'm concerned, really interesting!

BAME

daphnedill a word of warning if you are talking about your Nigerian friends on here; I mentioned some our friends on another thread a while ago (Ugandan Asians, Indians) and was told off for talking about them and told it was a sign that I was a racist by another poster, can't remember who, not a usual poster!
ps their children were born here but they weren't

I just called them our friends and neighbours but I still got into trouble.


You may be OK though

They'd probably burble about rule of law and Christian values.
Well, don't think they would and I think any mention of God(s) would be optional.

Respecting laws, democracy and other people's beliefs ?

I wouldn't necessarily think Diane Abbott is correct.
I've heard her use it twice now dd, the first time I thought 'oops, did I really hear that?', then I thought I must be out of date with today's terminology.
The first time was on the Andrew Neil programme some time ago.

Are you saying that "lapping up" elements of other cultures isn't a good thing then, *MargaretX"? I for one am proud that we are not a mono-culture and that we have been embracing aspects "belonging" to other cultures for as long as I can remember. These cultures are part and parcel of the UK.

The OP is about immigrants, not refugees. ONS figures show that in 2015 more than one in eight of the UK resident population was born abroad. Add to that the number of people from ethnic minority backgrounds, and it's easy to see why we are so multicultural.

I don't know many people who mock the NHS either. It has its problems, but I for one think it's something we have cause to be very proud of.

I suspect the government hasn't the first clue what British values represent. They'd probably burble about rule of law and Christian values. But really it would be all nonsense.

I think that's what all of us would like, whatever colour our skin may be. (re post of 13.21)

Totally off topic (well, not really)...

My daughter is in Patagonia (Argentina) and has just been to a place called Y Wladfa.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29611380

My daughter had a cuppa in a Welsh tea house, but had to speak Spanish, because she can't speak Welsh.

I would just like to be called British, but have my heritage acknowledged and respected.

That could be because you are not black Daphne

Puzzlement rather than offence, daphnedill, as I wouldn't have thought it was something you would say. But I suppose people in different areas of the UK express themselves differently.

Fair enough!

I apologised for causing offence.

Just to make it clear, I have no problem with black people being called 'black'. To call a group of black people 'the blacks' is what I was tallking about, and still find odd.

@ Jalima

I wouldn't necessarily think Diane Abbott is correct.

I think the technical term is BAME (black, Asian, minority ethnic). Personally, I'd rather be called black than bame.

@Penstemmon

I hope you can see the point I was actually making, which is that somebody commented on the decline of Christianity in the UK and I pointed out that many immigrants are actually boosting the numbers of various Christian churches.

In the case of my friends (and I do think of them as friends) they're all British-born. They're not Nigerian or African or anything else. They're British. I think we need to get used to the fact that the British have all sorts of different skin colours and facial features. However much they adopt 'British' culture over the generations, they can't change their physical appearance, so I don't think calling them 'black' is an insult.

I don't know what kind of culture the children will adopt, but at the moment, their food is based on traditional Nigerian food (apart from pizzas, burgers, fish and chips, etc ). The mother works as an accountant in the City and wears a smart suit for work and usually wears jeans when not at work, etc, but she wears traditional Nigerian clothes for celebrations and weddings, etc. I've seen the photos and she looks stunning. The girls have their hair braided. The parents are very strict about bringing up their children, as many Nigerian parents are, and they're obsessed with education. They also follow a very strict form of Christianity, which I understand is common in Nigeria.

Despite all the above, they're British and I think would be insulted at being called Nigerian. Britain is made up of all sorts of different people with different cultures. There is no one form of British culture (or DNA), which is why I find this whole British values thing confused.

Oops - wrong thread

My GC have visited the Sikh temple, a mosque and a synagogue with Beavers and Cubs. They've also visited the Mad Museum, the bowling alley, the Guide Dog Centre, been carol singing, camping, night walks in the woods (one lot got lost!) been kayaking, sailing, up climbing walls, down a cave ...I could go on forever.

So this visit is just part of the rich fabric of life, nothing to get worked up about AND an experience which is offered by more than just schools, proving that other organisations see the benefit too.

It is difficult, though, to keep up with how people like to term themselves.
At one time 'coloured people' was the norm, then became really offensive and the term 'black' was preferred.
Now I hear Diane Abbott refer to 'people of colour' which is presumably the correct term.

No wonder some people, particularly 'the elderly' (which in fact is another non-homogenous group) get confused.

Good post Margaret

The Uk does not have a written constitution and until this has been decided on there will be nothing fixed to swear an oath on.
From a continental eye view of things I think the Uk laps everything up belonging to other cultures. Christmas markets, advent candles French/Indian/japanese eating culture, croissants for breakfast, shooting rockets on New Years Eve Instead of Auld Langs Ayne ( hope I've got the spelling right)
The list goes on. The only thing left which is really British is the sense of humour and the NHS. Perhaps you need the one to cope with the other.
Britsh Values for the refugees. What they need is proper support and there are only 333,000 of them in a country with 65 million inhabitants not even one percent of the population

I was not suggesting anything about you personally daphne as I do not know you and would not presume anything about individuals I have never met.
The point I was making was that particular use of language to describe people can have the impact of dehumanising groups. I feel that 'blacks' 'whites' etc fall into that category.
I am sure I have been unintentionally racist/offensive on occasions as we can all be careless/thoughtless sometimes. Most people try hard to be respectful, kind and caring to individuals. Those who automatically dislike/ are wary of a person/ group of people purely because of a difference in colour/creed etc are behaving in a racist way. That does not sound like you!

The reason I didn't refer to them as the Nigerian family is that they aren't Nigerian. They're British. I'm not going to call them by their names on a public forum. I don't even know the background of some of the other choir members.

However, I apologise if I've caused offence.

I have just looked up the ethnicity of the people living in the electoral ward. There are 15,504 residents (2011 census). Out of those, 96.7% identify as white. 0.5% identify as black ie approximately 75 people - I know 9 of them, have been in their houses, eaten with them and tutored their children over a number of years. I have discussed cultural differences with them. To have so many in a church choir means a distinct cultural group is over-represented, which was the point I was making. I was also trying to point out in a discussion about immigrants and the decline of Christianity that immigrants and those from immigrant backgrounds are more likely to be Christian than the so-called 'indigenous' population.

The strange thing is that I have never for one minute considered that the people I know have feelings and emotions different from 'ours'. I don't even consider them not 'us'. I don't think that multiculturalism is about assimilating and turning a blind eye, but recognising and respecting diversity.

I think the use of 'blacks' does sound derogatory and rather dehumanising. I would think the same if it was the term 'whites' being used by a group of non whites too. If there are not many black families in the locality it would be easy to identify them as the Nigerian family or Mr & Mrs Ogbonna or whatever their name happens to be. Once we strart reducing people to their skin colour or referring to them by generic names:immigrants/refugees/blacks/asians/whites/Poles/homeless/gays etc it is easier to forget that we are talking about human beings with feelings and emotions just like ours!

Daphne, just read your post on the Nigerians, why did you not call the people Nigerian?