An oath on British Values?

I asked a genuine question which Greyduster considers silly. Considering the rise of UKIP, and this is no longer a Christian country , I have no idea what British values are. I have my values , they are not all shared by the country ,I don't expect them to be

PS I have no actual objection to the niqab, and I think the hijab is a good solution to bad hair days (must be why the queen wears a headscarf so often)but the former does tend to stand out a bit.

Why is it that some immigrants assimilate much more easily than others? It seems to me (just a personal observation) that Islamic immigrants seem less likely to have integrated than eg Sikh, Hindu, Chinese people, Jewish people etc etc. Its not unreasonable to ask that people who want to live in Britain understand our values.

Whenever the question of 'British values' comes up on GN, there is a tendency to take the view 'no such thing' or 'we'd never agree' and so on.

Perhaps rather than this somewhat negative approach it might be worth trying to actually trash out what these values might be.

having posted that 'holier than thou' statement Anya can't think of a single thing herself to start the ball rolling so wanders off to write some Christmas cards

Sheer numbers I think Jane

Just shows how much you really know me if you think I'm sensible then Anya

Seriously though (to all). Why is it that if someone says they would like to see a halt to immigration does that automatically mean they are racist? People are effected by immigration in many different ways. Personally it p*sses me right off that my DGC cannot get into the school close to where they live and are forced to travel a great distance too and from school everyday and whilst I am by no means blaming immigration for the fact that the school is full, the school admission policy says that they WILL take immigrant children if directed to do so by the LEA. Why? Surely if the school is full then it is full for EVERYONE.

I doubt if that's all immigrants, gillybob.

From memory, I think there's something in the national admissions code about asylum seekers and refugees. I guess it depends on the area how many asylum seekers and refugees there are.

I worked in a school not far from Stansted Airport, which would have a few asylum seekers literally arriving at the front door when there was a crisis. I remember groups from Lebanon and Bosnia. Generally, they didn't stay long.

I don't think schools admissions codes can specify that all immigrants can be given priority, but could be wrong.

What are our values Jane?

I recognise that values exist in Britain, but they have changed a great deal as we are now a multi-cultural society. Just as an unenforcable law is by definition a bad law, so this requirement is bad as we cannot specifically define the terms sufficuently to enforce this.

It's what has always happened in the U.S.and was meant to make people feel included and a proper American citizen, and most were pleased to do it.
It's a way of saying, that we as a country accept you into our midst, but that you (as the immigrant) as well as now having all our rights, also have the responsibilities.
That you will uphold our laws and institutions, and accept our culture.
Nothing wrong with that I think.

So, we could do something similar here.

Our values are tolerance ( where is more tolerant than here?) and fairness, as in the eyes of the law, we are all equal .Where both men and women can be allowed to wear whatever they like, however bizarre it may seem to outsiders, and say whatever they like , within reason.Where a lowly background does not hold you back, even from high office.Where bribes/kickbacks are not the norm, and where gay men and women are treated equally.
I could go on!

Yes daphnedill It does state (quote) "Immigrant children and refugees if directed to by the LEA".

I don't want to come across as spiteful or uncharitable but why should this be a priority when children born in this country and living on the doorstep haven't got a hope in hell of a place?

Just thinking this one out.

Say I had a school and I refused a place to a white, English child (for whatever reason)but then allowed a place to a black African child is that not racist?

I totally agree rosesarered, those are all the things I would think of too. There is nothing wrong with patriotism although it's often decried now
.
I don't think anyone was singling out Muslims maizie.

As to taking an oath I'm not sure if that will just be lip service although it may make people think a bit more.

You can't force people how to think, or change their fundemental beliefs.what you can do is come down very hard on people who think that their ways are acceptable in this country.
As in the case of Micheal Coe who was a 'bodyguard' to Anjem Choudary and believed it was perfectly OK to punch a 16 yr old Muslim schoolboy unconscious because he was cuddling his girlfriend. This is the second time he has gone to prison for his beliefs that this behaviour is against Islam. The first time he assaulted a Muslim woman in the street because she was talking to a group of men.

Maybe we could make a list of what we believe British values to be. Here's a start.....

- respect for the rule of law

Where is more tolerant than here?
Canada
New Zealand
Australia
Norway
Sweden
Denmark
Iceland
Urugay

UK is 12th, assuming that by tolerance you mean having personal freedom.

And this is what OfSted says they are:

- democracy
- the rule of law
- individual liberty
- mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith.

The first three countries on your list djen were settled by British people.However I think tolerance is about more than personal freedoms (great as they are) but about acceptance of the beliefs and feelings of others.

We have been accepting people from all over the world here for a very long time, and on the whole are very good at it.

I think the Ofsted ones are good - I would also hope that we are compassionate.

I think that one of the greatest British values used to be tolerance but we are becoming less and less tolerant of people who don't agree with our thinking. Witness the aftermath of the (democratic) general election and the Referendum. Someone much cleverer than I could maybe tell us why.

But tolerance has to work both ways....as Petra's post highlights.

I am not any cleverer than you kitty but think it has been the unlimited immigration from the EU coupled with high immigration from India and Pakistan,( not to mention all the African countries )and even more the pace of all this immigration , that has led to a feeling of resentment, and even anger.