An oath on British Values?

Apparently, the biggest growth in Christianity in the UK is amongst immigrant populations. I know that the tiny Catholic church in my town is standing room only since Poles arrived. About a third of the C of E church choir is of Nigerian heritage. As there are hardly any blacks from anywhere in this town, it must mean most of them are in the choir.

Mmmmm yes, much safer to keep to the beige/grey nothingness option.

Oh, that would be far too difficult...just think if they got it wrong just once, it'd be on the National news!

So everyone gets a bare wall, with no focus point for anyone, whatever their faith. A solid hook at a suitable height, with a selection of plain cross, crucifix, star and crescent, star of David, and a few other things would cost very little and be phased in as wanted. If no religious symbol were specified when the booking was made, something neutral but universally suitable for the occasion could hang there.

They don't show much imagination, do they.

This isn't a recent thing, it's been happening for years and it's no wonder Christians are annoyed. I suppose they're expected to turn the other cheek...

They should try seeking a compromise, then, instead of bowing to the lets-offend-one-religion-so-as-to-not-offend-another brigade.

I don't dare Google it, Ana, someone might accuse me of trying to look clever.

(that was to the flag/lighter solution, have not studied the rest)

Bath, Torbay, Accrington and others - quite a few if you Google it Elegran. Crosses have been permanently removed 'in case they offend those of other religions'.

I like it, dj, bureaucracy defeated by its own hand.

Which crematorium was that? I can understand that cremations may be of and by people who are of other faiths (or none) where a cross is not suitable, but it could surely be possible for a crematorium to have a removeable one, to be put up when requested and taken down again if not wanted. The turnover time between bookings is tight, but I imagine there is a tidy-up routine which could include cross deploying.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/02/digested-week-flag-and-lighter-solution-to-a-bureaucratic-nightmare

I was wondering that too, dj I don't remember it being made illegal to celebrate Christmas, or anyone being lynched for doing so.

Is there any area in the UK where we can't celebrate Christmas?

*if

*things !!

A similar recent paradox showed up in the States recently. Trump apparently said burning the American flag will be a crime. But then others retorted with this: Freedom in the US means that people are free to burn the flag.

Similarly, freedom of speech means that people are free to say that they disagree with thongs, even with laws. What they are not free to do is break the laws they disagree with. Well, to be exact, they are free to break laws but they have to accept the consequences of they do. That's what rule of law means.

But if enough people say they disagree with a law, then in a free culture, the law will eventually get changed. A recent example is the law on gay marriage.

I may not agree with your opinions but uphold your right to voice them.

I must admit to being a bit concerned about Christianity being sidelined as it is, why can't we celebrate Christmas in some areas of UK, why was the cross removed from a crematorium,. Again I think this is down to the PC brigade and not necessarily down to complaints from other religious groups.

No thanks, Elegran. I once did a sociology course when there were only two of us, a very rightwinger and me.
We didn't agree on a thing, but the American lecturer enjoyed herself playing devil's advocate.

I don't know, Ana but that is a paradox of "British values" It is the "I don't agree with you, but I will defend your right to say it" oxymoron. Perhaps people could promise not to act to the detriment of the country that is becoming their home, or the people who live there?

Or some such thing - it would need a lot of careful wording so as to make sense to both those enetring the country and the current inhabitants, and be acceptable to them all.

But Elegran how could we expect immigrants to swear to uphold and abide by certain values but at the same time give everyone the freedom to say in public that they don't agree with them!?

We should say we have different values and stop claiming there is such a thing as British values.

If only!

Perhaps one of them is the freedom to say in public that your values differ, without being clapped in jail.

Going back to *Lucky's' post

"And this is what OfSted says they are:

- democracy
- the rule of law
- individual liberty
- mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith"

A fair amount of thought went into these. They'd be enough for me.

Some of your values may be more similar to Theresa May's than they are to those in some other countries, though, dj even if all of them are not. That is what I mean by the unconscious values that we take for granted.

Don't ask me to list which ones, because I am not a mindreader. To find out, you might both have to be marooned somewhere completely different to where you are used to and observe the values surrounding you there.