An oath on British Values?

Maybe we could make a list of what we believe British values to be. Here's a start.....

- respect for the rule of law

You can't force people how to think, or change their fundemental beliefs.what you can do is come down very hard on people who think that their ways are acceptable in this country.
As in the case of Micheal Coe who was a 'bodyguard' to Anjem Choudary and believed it was perfectly OK to punch a 16 yr old Muslim schoolboy unconscious because he was cuddling his girlfriend. This is the second time he has gone to prison for his beliefs that this behaviour is against Islam. The first time he assaulted a Muslim woman in the street because she was talking to a group of men.

I totally agree rosesarered, those are all the things I would think of too. There is nothing wrong with patriotism although it's often decried now
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I don't think anyone was singling out Muslims maizie.

As to taking an oath I'm not sure if that will just be lip service although it may make people think a bit more.

Just thinking this one out.

Say I had a school and I refused a place to a white, English child (for whatever reason)but then allowed a place to a black African child is that not racist?

Yes daphnedill It does state (quote) "Immigrant children and refugees if directed to by the LEA".

I don't want to come across as spiteful or uncharitable but why should this be a priority when children born in this country and living on the doorstep haven't got a hope in hell of a place?

Our values are tolerance ( where is more tolerant than here?) and fairness, as in the eyes of the law, we are all equal .Where both men and women can be allowed to wear whatever they like, however bizarre it may seem to outsiders, and say whatever they like , within reason.Where a lowly background does not hold you back, even from high office.Where bribes/kickbacks are not the norm, and where gay men and women are treated equally.
I could go on!

So, we could do something similar here.

It's what has always happened in the U.S.and was meant to make people feel included and a proper American citizen, and most were pleased to do it.
It's a way of saying, that we as a country accept you into our midst, but that you (as the immigrant) as well as now having all our rights, also have the responsibilities.
That you will uphold our laws and institutions, and accept our culture.
Nothing wrong with that I think.

I recognise that values exist in Britain, but they have changed a great deal as we are now a multi-cultural society. Just as an unenforcable law is by definition a bad law, so this requirement is bad as we cannot specifically define the terms sufficuently to enforce this.

What are our values Jane?

I doubt if that's all immigrants, gillybob.

From memory, I think there's something in the national admissions code about asylum seekers and refugees. I guess it depends on the area how many asylum seekers and refugees there are.

I worked in a school not far from Stansted Airport, which would have a few asylum seekers literally arriving at the front door when there was a crisis. I remember groups from Lebanon and Bosnia. Generally, they didn't stay long.

I don't think schools admissions codes can specify that all immigrants can be given priority, but could be wrong.

Just shows how much you really know me if you think I'm sensible then Anya

Seriously though (to all). Why is it that if someone says they would like to see a halt to immigration does that automatically mean they are racist? People are effected by immigration in many different ways. Personally it p*sses me right off that my DGC cannot get into the school close to where they live and are forced to travel a great distance too and from school everyday and whilst I am by no means blaming immigration for the fact that the school is full, the school admission policy says that they WILL take immigrant children if directed to do so by the LEA. Why? Surely if the school is full then it is full for EVERYONE.

Sheer numbers I think Jane

Whenever the question of 'British values' comes up on GN, there is a tendency to take the view 'no such thing' or 'we'd never agree' and so on.

Perhaps rather than this somewhat negative approach it might be worth trying to actually trash out what these values might be.

having posted that 'holier than thou' statement Anya can't think of a single thing herself to start the ball rolling so wanders off to write some Christmas cards

Why is it that some immigrants assimilate much more easily than others? It seems to me (just a personal observation) that Islamic immigrants seem less likely to have integrated than eg Sikh, Hindu, Chinese people, Jewish people etc etc. Its not unreasonable to ask that people who want to live in Britain understand our values.

PS I have no actual objection to the niqab, and I think the hijab is a good solution to bad hair days (must be why the queen wears a headscarf so often)but the former does tend to stand out a bit.

I asked a genuine question which Greyduster considers silly. Considering the rise of UKIP, and this is no longer a Christian country , I have no idea what British values are. I have my values , they are not all shared by the country ,I don't expect them to be

I know you for a sensible woman Gilly so we will agree to differ on that one!

I was reading an article recently which talked about the difficulties some cultures had in fully integrating. One point it made was this; those of central European origins, as an example, being mainly white will integrate within one generation as, apart from language, they are physically indistinguishable from the average Brit and their children will learn to speak with local accents.

Those of Asian or Black origins will not have this option as their colour will single them out.

It is of course more complicated than that, if we take religion, culture, etc into consideration, but I am happy when I see an Asian or Black person speaking with a Scottish or Brummie accent (for example) and wearing clothes from the High Street. This seems to say that, for me at any rate, I am happy to welcome others into our country providing they make an effort to blend in. Sounds reasonable to me.

British values include knowing how to queue correctly, a value not shared by the Italians I'm sorry to say.

It is important not to stop people expressing their reservations and concerns about immigration and dealing with this properly - otherwise we finish up with Farage and his mob, because they have nowhere else to go. It is NOT racist to express concern about the numbers of immigrants - labeling people as racist rather than addressing the concerns results in the backlash that we have seen so recently.

Not listening to this results in people being pushed to further extremes of view. If the issue had been addressed with proper understanding of people's concerns then we would not be in the position of UKIP getting so much support.

I'm not sure what is going on here.

Why do the British think that their 'values' are in any way superior to the values of foreigners?

Is this aimed particularly at Muslims (who make up some 4.5% of the UK population; we're hardly being overwhelmed by them)? As far as I can see no-one is objecting to the practices/values of people of other religions.

Let's not forget that in the days of Empire the British blithely tried to impose their values in countries all over the world regardless of those of the native inhabitants. At least immigrants aren't trying to impose their values on us; just asking us to tolerate them where they do not conflict with the law of the land.

Oaths to uphold some nebulous 'British values' seem a bit silly. How would you know that someone has broken their oath and what would you do about it?

You have said it Greyduster

Annie if I may be allowed to say so, that is a silly thing to say and not worthy of you.

Is Mumsy an example of British values ?

I think Louise Casey made the point that some communities bring a spouse in from whence they originated from and therefore never break through that first generation mould. Marrying outside an ethnic community often means that the 2nd generation can straddle two cultures, that's how it was for my father and his siblings, my grandfather came to this country, married my English grandmother and had to get to grips with all things English.