An oath on British Values?

Ana, I wouldn't dare call mair black.

Pen, where do students fit into your scheme?

Immigration from the EU is not controlled, that's the point.

Correct. We have only extremely limited powers to send back some unemployed EUers and that by cumbersome and costly court processes, quite impractical in terms of reducing numbers.

What we could do is create a much more hostile environment which is less immigrant friendly, so they would not be incentivised to come, but imagine the outcry from the usual suspects. How about making them pay for their own interpreters in the NHS for example?

Over 40,000 deported last year.

By voting for the UK to remain in the EU I accepted the 4 principles , that is so bleeding obvious it doesn't need discussing - a child could have worked that out.

So did 48% of the voting public and a good deal of Brexiters if the Brexit grans are to believed who assured us that immigration wasn't the issue which prompted them to vote Brexit.

I haven't mentioned globalisation mair in any of my posts and you haven't the first clue what I think, but I can refer you to various academic papers/books if you want to be able to give an informed comment on what I think.

For future reference and to prevent you from having to constantly retract your comments on what I think I can give you a whole raft of references on all sorts of subjects. Just ask and I will be more than willing to give you a reference

However for limiting immigration from within the 27 EU countries, by voting Remain you have accepted that nothing can be done

Well plenty could be done if the EU wanted it, but as the EU realise mixing up the populations and having a single common language and destroying nations is essential to their goal of a unitary state, then above all else they are determined hold on to this keystone.

I can't see any insults, just very robust discussion going on.Immigration from the EU is not controlled, that's the point.

Mair I am interested to know what your ideal system would be. Do you want all current immigrants to leave UK or to select ( what criteria) some to stay? How would you ensure we have the right "home grown" skill set? Will you also ban emigration so we keep a work force here? Would you support a blanket ban on any new immigrant..regardless of skill set/country of origin etc?
Apart from refugees I think it is ok to have a sponsor system for immigration. By which I mean any person wanting to live in UK must have the means to support themselves either through a job or family.

If students do no form of paid work, social care will get a lot worse.
I know of quite a few who paid their way through university by working in care homes.
How many immigrants do you know, by the way?

Pot, kettle...

No you are not, mair. All you are interested in doing is insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you.

What is your definition of uncontrolled immigration, because immigration is definitely controlled.

"There is always the possibility of limiting immigration from outside the EU, which in my view may well have some traction, but May simply chose not to tackle it for the whole of her time in the Home office"

She didn't 'choose' not to tackle it, she wanted to (I have it on good authority) but it involves a great many difficulties, and I suspect she was under pressure from Cameron not to (though thats only my opinion).

And in fact the Conservatives DID reduce non EU immigration, just not very much. They also clamped down on bogus colleges acting as portals for illegals.

If you think about the categories that non EU immigrants fall under you can see why its hard:
Students
Family reunion
Highly skilled migrants
Inter company transfers
Asylum seekers

Which ones of those would you stop?

Personally I would love to see them preventing 'students' from doing any form of paid work (just as in the USA where they can only work on campus in a pre arranged job, not enter the general job market). Would you be happy with that? There would be an absolute outcry from FE colleges, Unis and English language schools however, all massive businesses

fullfact.org/immigration/why-dont-we-know-how-many-migrants-are-entering-and-leaving-uk/

Daphne, I know that teaching assistants should have a grasp of English, but don't you think a degree and an MA at English universities prove that grasp of English?
To then have to take a GCSE level test and pay for it, is just insulting, in my opinion.
She wouldn't have got onto the degree course - in psychology - without having a grasp of English at the level required of a teaching assistant, would she?

To be fair ww you have not answered the question about 'do you want to see continued unlimited immigration' to the UK

No rosesarered, I think we could be waiting a very long time.

The only conclusion I can draw is that the cognitive dissonance induced in WWs and other Bremoaner brains by trying to marry their blind faith in Globalism and the EU with the grim prospects that indefinite uncontrolled immigration actually means for Britain, means that they can only deal with it by a self induced whiteout. Hence the diversionary tactics so rampant on this thread.

Its a great shame as I am genuinely interested in working out how these self righteous ones think - my conclusion is mostly its by not thinking!

I agree that May and others should have tackled it whilst in the Home Office, and before that, the Labour contingent, it has been allowed to run on unchecked for so very long.
However for limiting immigration from within the 27 EU countries, by voting Remain you have accepted that nothing can be done.

No I didn't rose ! I voted to remain in the EU. With that comes the 4principles. There is always the possibility of limiting immigration from outside the EU, which in my view may well have some traction, but May simply chose not to tackle it for the whole of her time in the Home office

Immigration - whilst I recognise it to be a major issue with some, for whatever reason , it is not for me. Other issues which I don't need to revisit counted as far greater importance.

Jess
I am afraid my clearly figurative use of the term 'blackleg' was lost on you.

"Nothing illegal about employing people on shifts on minimum wage."

No of course not but still bizarre that the current 'left' are encouraging conditions where there are more:

"people willing to do minimum wage work, work inconvenient hours and live in overcrowded conditions"

Why so in your opinion?

To be fair ww you have not answered the question about 'do you want to see continued unlimited immigration' to the UK. As a Remainer, that is what you have backed by wanting to stay in the EU, but perhaps you voted Remain and hoped that immigration could be controlled ( not continue as an unlimited number) by negotiation within the EU?Of course, that would have been utterly unlikely to happen.
If you are dedicated to the idea of unlimited immigration, why not just say so?

I live in an area with little immigration, but I do frequently go to London and revel in the melting pot atmosphere.

Hmmm yes its all great fun when its not your patch isn't it, not so great for the millions of working class Londoners who were displaced!

I live in an area with little immigration, but I do frequently go to London and revel in the melting pot atmosphere.

Wrong again Mair blacklegs are people who break strikes. Nothing illegal about employing people on shifts on minimum wage.
London region is a huge successful mega-city that sucks in workers from around the world - bringing all kinds of skills and energy. It is also the major generator of wealth.
Anything you did to tighten up on immigration would damage London. It has complex problems and there are no easy solutions.
Immigrants are not the cause of housing problems, pressure on health service or schools. They are the fuel that enables the city to function so well.

elegran I find your posts pertinent and moderate and always read them with interest. I bet others do to, so your critic is probably a minority of one.

That's me tell't then, Mair I shall write out a hundred times "I must not drift off the subject or neglect to read 22 pages of repetitive previous comments"

It reminds me of why I don't post much on the political threads. It is clearly my own fault. I should have chosen an extreme position and been prepared to defend it in a "debate" there is no place for any shade other than snow-white or coal-black (and I am not talking skin colour here) or for any flicker of acknowledgment that life is annoyingly three-dimensional, that blame cannot be conveniently placed squarely on one or other group.