The cost of Brexit for us; the ordinary people

No one is saying anything about trump, he's a dick. I tend to think all that goes on in America is a bit weird anyway (all of them are probably on zanex)

I however think that it is a time for change and am embracing it in England.

For me it's time to leave a dying cash cow and move on.

I only mentionned Trump to illustrate that it is 'easy' to say that you would never allow politics to spoil Christmas dinner- or evening (as alcohol flows, more likely that things that would be better not talked about, are...).

So I had a little experiment and asked the question on a Forum made up of the 48% remainers, mostly younger people, but not all- about how they will cope with Xmas dinner with 'leave' voting parents on in laws, late lastg night.

66 replies so far- and coming. Some saying that they have made excuses this year, or have decided not to go at all, or went earlier and bit their lip, and will be having Xmas with friends who feel the same, some who say they will go and be quiet, but if provoked repeatedly, they will just leave, many who live in the EU not going home for the first time ever, one a EU dil who says she will have to go, but can't stand how she is being patronised, etc, etc. One only says she respects parent's views as they are not racist and very nice people- butis still dreading it.

You won't believe me, of course, but I just had to see if it was all a figment of my imagination. It wasn't.
Hope all goes well... one said they went last week-end, and they talked about holidays and the cat ... it was so stilted and ackward.

Stillaliveand kicking - how old is your son? Is he coming home for Xmas?

I only know two people well in real life who voted to leave the EU.

The first is mega-rich and made much of his money investing in developing economies, especially India. He sees leaving the EU as an opportunity to make even more money. Surprisingly enough, he's quite personable, sent his children to state schools (one of his DCs and mine were best friends) and gives squillions away to charity. I respect his views, although I don't agree with him. I think he lives on a cloud and thinks everybody is as capable of making money as he is.

The second is an anarchist - well, a sort of anarchist - he comes from a comfortably-off family, who have helped him out in the past. He doesn't believe in any form of government, apart from very local councils/groups. He's the stereotypical hippy, now middle-aged. Again, I respect his views.

Neither is a racist - quite the opposite, in fact. I could have Christmas dinner with both of them (although it would have to be a vegan one for the second person), because both express their views articulately. They would probably be tactful enough not to discuss Brexit anyway. Neither has a 'we won, so suck it up, you lost, so shut up' mentality, although I do think both have voted for selfish reasons, which can't be reconciled.

dahpne, we also know a couple of people we could have an intelligent and calm discussion about Brexit, even though they voted to leave (neither are very sure now that they made the right decision btw) - after agonising re pros and cons, in a rational manner.

What is illustrated by the people on that Forum (now nearly 80 posts) is that their parents and relatives who have voted leave are not able to discuss this rationally, using rational arguments, other than shout 'we want Great Britain back, and suck it you lost' and niceties to that effect. And who will inisist on discussing the issue, come what may.

Those adult children who see their chances scuppered for the future, and are told 'you may not see it now, but you will thank me one day son' ...

It certainly makes for interesting reading, very sad too- to see young people saying either 'we are not going this year for the first time' or 'we are going but albsolutely dreading it'.

We're all doomed

I'm just surprised that the forum is made up of only 48% Remain Voters (and presumably 52% Leave voters!)

From what we have been led to believe, virtually all Ex-Pats voted to stay in the EU...

Well, nobody in our family talk to each other as you describe granjura! never have and never would. We are lucky that we all have the same political views and always have, back, and probably beyond my grandparents which does help. However, over Brexit we have differed for serious reasons on both fronts, but as I've said we all accept that having been given the opportunity to vote according to how we feel, we are entitled to do exactly that without being lectured or patronized by other family members. It's the old thing of, 'If you want to know what I think then ask me and I'll tell you. If you don't want to know what I think then don't ask in the first place'. Somebody did ask and I've told them! Probably not what they wanted to hear, but that's the risk you take if you ask a question! I'm never going to pretend to feel something when I genuinely don't! I do however feel that my grandchildren will, rightly or wrongly, in the future fare better outside the EU than in it, and that's why I voted to leave.

Six months ago today.

ukandeu.cmail19.com/t/r-l-yktiljlk-hyduuilyhy-t/

This is what we know after six months. Written by experts, mind, so some of you won't want to know.

Niggly, that is great so hope you have a lovely time. Sadly, as the thread on that Forum has shown, not all are so lucky.

Ana, no, the Forum is 48%, because it represents the 48% who voted remain.

Just had a lovely walk with the doggies - time for lunch- another walk- and get ready for visitors.

Joyeux Noël and Peace to all, somehow.

Who wants to quarrel at Christmas?! ?

Haha! Shall we have a ceasefire. Like in WW1, cross the trenches and exchange ciggies and pleasantries? Just for 'the duration' as they used to say.Leavers in one trench and Remainers in the other.

h, I see an ex-pat forum made up solely of Remainers - might have known! All agreeing with each other and complaining about their terrible old relatives...!

Some of the Ex-pat 48% are the old relatives.

Should you want to learn any more bad language just look at a few of the leavers sites!

Well, why not add foul-mouthed to the list of Leavers' shortcomings...

No Ana, it is definitely NOT an expat Forum at all- but a British group, some of whom, a small minority, are expats.

So which site are you talking about, Welshwife?

How about just avoiding the subject?

You clearly haven't met my grandad! he will launch himself into a tirade about 'bloody Europe' and I will sit there desperately trying not to say anything but will ultimately break, he doesn't take strongly argued alternatives well either

One of the many exchange on the site.

I am a member of one other Forum, mainly young expats.

This is what you said yesterday, granjura.

@gj

Yes, I've come across people online who can't explain their position and resort to that kind of comment. I find it incredibly frustrating and rude.

And another:

I can only talk about our experience but, although he is still welcome , the relations with my husband's father have totally changed. He didn't think about us, me in particular, his foreign daughter in law, or his 17 year old granddaughter, too young to vote, who asked him to vote remain. We merely tolerate him and his wife now.

And just one more- there we are at 90 comments so far, most in the same vein- and the others saying 'we are so lucky our parents voted remain, so proud of them'.

To suddenly realise the people you grew up with are rascist bigots hurts. Im really struggling with my parents. We had an odd relationship before but its gotten much worse. I wish i could block them out of my life to be honest, they are toxic people and if it wasn't for my children wanting to see them, (which i wont stop) i would have cut ties in the summer

Ana, the expat Forum here is a totally different entity.

So all these quotes are not from the 'mainly young ex pats' Forum then? They are from the British group with a small minority of ex-pats?

Yes.