What is Populism

off not of. I am sorry.

It isn't an argument Ankers and I will not 'argue' with you. You asked for a more recent example of a populist leader that led to a bloody end - I gave you one. Trump, Farage, we will have to wait and see. However, this thread is about populism not about certain people so I apologise to whitewave if I have taken it of subject.

For that argument to hold water GracesGran, would mean that you think Farage, Trump etc want bad for the people and not good?

It wasn't an argument Ankers just a statement of fact. The thread has gloriously been mainly free of the "it's my opinion and I'm entitled" lobby and has comprised more of the "what does this mean?" "is this true?" "what have others thought about this?"

The obvious example (which I hope doesn't invoke Godwin's law as this has been the most interesting thread for some time) would be Hitler. All those people who shouted for him at his rallies were just like those who shout out for populist leaders now - they were good people who wanted to believe he would make them feel in control and make their country great again.

I am fast thinking the same thing as you POGS

No vote is ever a proper majority. A non argument in my book.

bellsisabelle, I suspect a revote would get much the same result. Revotes generally do if I am not mistaken, though happy for you to prove otherwise?

As always though populists never carry "all" the people so it can easily become bloody.
A rather rash statement I would have thought? Do you have examples rather than someone from the 1600's?

Right I have read all posts and frankly not getting much further.

I will take the liberty of just posting a few posts in the latter part of the thread, I could have picked any poster so please don't think I am challenging certain posters views.

Can I ask this question. If these views are representative of what is percieved as being populist/populism , a populist politician, populist movement then why are we for the most part only mentioning Trump/Forage/Marine Le Penn?.

'Nationalist and ultra-right politicians foster a sense of grievance, divide people into them and us then point to the outsiders- them- as to blame for all that goes wrong.'

'I think the next thing in our look at what poplulism means and how it operates is to look at the various language and concepts it employs in its pursuit of power. So perhaps those with which we are most familiar are Farage and Trump'

'I certainly agree that right wing populists jump on the nationalist band wagon but wonder if left wing ones do. Is a fight for 'the people' nationalist?

I could raise a few posts but my question really is if Nationalism / Nationalist is deemed as a 'dirty word' so to speak what would we call say The Scottish National Party and Nicola Sturgeon? Do they come under the banner of populism? They are after all a full blown Nationalist Party. What about Plaid Cymru etc. etc.

I have to say after reading every post I have not shifted far from my original post and I think that calling a person or group populist/populism is down to the politics of the poster , albeit subliminally.

I could think of Corbyn and Sturgeon as populist for example, others may think of Trump and Forage. Are they not all populist if not why not?.

They are still words /description that I can't see any point in using other than trying to make it sound disparaging against a political side, left or right of politics. It is intended and used as a 'sneer ' word/term and has no depth of affirmed logic.

I am not trying to be difficult or antagonising I genuinely see the use of populist/populism as meaningless, devoid of a factual conclusion. 'Who', 'What' and 'Where' they are either used or applicable will be seen through the prism of our own eyes and political persuasion it seems to me.

As I said Ankers, some people did use the referendum to make a protest vote, and were stunned when what did happen, happened. At lot of people have done some serious thinking since the jolt that was the referendum result. I believe many people drifted into it thinking they were safe in just making a statement.

"I think a lot of Americans are pinning their hopes on him too."

I refer you to my last post - "a lot of Americans" were not actually the majority and if things go wrong it will be interesting to see the numbers that tell us that they didn't vote for him.

How about Cromwell Ankers. As always though populists never carry "all" the people so it can easily become bloody.

whitewave. Sorry not to have come back sooner. The thread has moved on now but
Yes of course they will fail if the voter feels that the traditional politician has more to say, which in my argument will always ultimately be the case because populism has no answer to the majority of the social, economic and political questions of the day
I have been pondering this. I cant decide if that is wrong or not. I think it might be. Guess we will all have to wait and see what Trump actually delivers.
I think a lot of Americans are pinning their hopes on him too.
I think he is particular is or was popular over there, because he brought an economic message. They have seen him on The Apprentice and seen what he appears to deliver to people around him.
Then some people look around at their lives, and think they would like a piece of what he has.

Have people watched the American Apprentice? I have only seen one series. It was rather glitzy.

Anyone know if there has been a so called "populist" leader in the UK or America before?

Nothing wrong with populism, in my opinion, so long as the population have taken time to be well informed about it. With this, more time is needed. And more thought

!!
I think people had a year or more?
Have you tried getting other people to do what you want? Or your children, friends, relatives etc?
Or to take more time to think?

known not know

Wow ...

When you are talking about populism you couldn't do better than thoughts on "the people". What a breath of fresh air.

"Then something more important then the will of the British people is at stake and that is, not to look further afield, the safety of the British people. It is good to say it anyway."

From time immemorial people have given a little of their free will in order to come under the protection of the bigger, stronger person or body. We have always understood the bargain we make in voting people into a level of power which allows them to make some of our choices and gives them the wherewithal to protect us. Cameron, in an attempt to deal with what he must have know was populism reneged on this bargain and abdicated his responsibility.

Thank you varian.

Daphnedil

daphnedill Sat 07-Jan-17 00:15:29

@POGS It would appear that the word 'populism' was first used in 1892 to describe the same phenomenon as it does now. Therefore, it's not some faddy word invented by living people. It's been used in history books for decades.

Are you talking at me? Are you talking to me? I don't understand why you have mentioned my name in connection with 1892 or an assumption I or anybody else believes it is a 'fuddy duddy word invented by living people'.

Can you explain please.

But it would still be democracy. The same people would be voting. A lot of people who voted to leave did so as a protest vote. Then were stunned when the result came through.

I disagree, bellsisabelle. It would make a mockery of democracy to have another referendum 'just to be sure'...

A SECOND ONE WOULD'NT HURT. iT WOULDN'T TAKE AWAY ANYTHING FROM DEMOCRACY. wE WOULD JUST BE BEING COMPLETELY SURE. iT MAKES SENSE. ThaT WAS not meant to be shouted. It's this soddi ng new keyboard. Get fed up with retyping.

Oh no, not another one! What if that one doesn't work - do we have to keep on going until we get the 'right' result?

Imagine a broken up Europe. Shudder at what could happen again. Derek Jacobsen has, I guess, got more reason than some of us to be alarmed.

Nothing wrong with populism, in my opinion, so long as the population have taken time to be well informed about it. With this, more time is needed. And more thought.

It's not going to happen though. Fools.

Yes. A very good Point of View. There should be a second referendum. It was far too small a margin to take such a momentous decision on. People have had time to think about now. Give them a second chance.

Yes dj thought that was striking too.

* varian* just finished listening -good wasn't it!

Be interesting to note how Farage and Trump use the populist language when they are on the media, and how they manipulate it to appeal to the " people"

"The people's vote freed Barabas, leaving Jesus to be crucified."