What is Populism

No, my apologies if I have misunderstood what you were meaning ww ( my, aren't we polite?)

....but what populism IS broadly is already set out by POGS and Eleothan in their posts. I don't think you can attribute the rise of populism to any one thing in particular.

I was attracted to the original discussion because it was about what populism is broadly rather than discussing one particular politician. For me it has to be taken away from the individual to let us understand it. This is something that has occurred in many different places and, although the figures that attracts people can be all very different - even from totally different parts of the political spectrum - they are creating a following even when those voting for them know they are not telling the truth. Why is this happening in so many places? Why is there such a division in so many different cultures even to the extremes of Isis/daish.

rose I don't think I've explained it very well. So we are talking at cross purposes really and about two different things. So apologies.

Yes Trump was the populist choice, but considering Clinton was so unpopular it was a close outcome.
Farage may be considered populist, but he is not a Leader.
It may be something (populism) that is more talked about than has action.Corbyn is populist but nothing may come of it.

So what are you saying rose

Trump had to get through all the primaries, and there were plenty of other candidates that could have been chosen. But my point and that of many others is that he has the characteristics of a populist politician. So does Le Pen so does Farage and Hoffer and Wilder.

populism is different in character from traditional pluralist political parties like the Conservative , Labour and Liberal parties.

There were only two candidates to choose from in the end (USA) and Clinton was deeply unpopular, if it had been anyone else but her, the Democrats would have won.
So Donald Trump got very lucky.
Cameron feared that UKIP would take away voters and had to please euro-sceptics in his own party, but yes of course, he announced there would be a referendum on Europe as a crowd pleaser to get votes.....so it was a populist move (he got more than he bargained for)
Marine Le Pen may or may not become President, the French are a conservative nation generally, but who knows?
The terrorist attacks in France may push people into voting for her if they think she will
Introduce more hard line measures.

Well it's been big enough to vote in the most powerful president in the world.

Populist politics "blackmailed" a conservative pm to hold a referendum.

Le Pen may become the French president so it is definitely a phenomenon worth giving some consideration.

It depends on which group of people you talk to I suspect ww it could well be very different in areas and type of person, even race,religion etc.
Because people communicate more than in the past and because so much information is available ( including half truths, dodgy speculation and downright fibs) every man and his dog have a whinge or a demand.
I think that feeling true 'alienation' is rare, it's a word ( like populist and post-factual) that is bandied about.
It may also be part of the vast 'victim' mentality that seems to abound these days and sense of entitlement that any viewpoint must be granted respect.
But mainly I think that POGS and Eloethan 's posts covered populism, and although we may think there is a rise in populism, there probably isn't, these things go in phases, and there is nothing new under the sun.

Actually * rose* yes I have re-read their posts and yes I agree, I have simply run a bit further with the definition to try to understand why people are feeling alienated.

dj I don't always carry a normal compass (although I believe there is one on my mobile)
But I truly hope I have my Moral compass with me at all times.

Sorry rose I'm not quite sure what you are saying.

Sorry, wrong thread

I hope this is the kind of thing she carries on doing:

news.sky.com/story/michelle-obamas-amazing-impact-on-british-schoolgirls-10719282

The definition of populism from Wiki given by POGS pretty much sums it up, as does the post by Eloethan.

dj yes that is so true. The centre right and left definitely lack conviction, it is so sad.

W. B. Yeats ‘The Second Coming’,
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world......
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Cheers rin

This is one of the most fascinating posts I have come across since becoming "active" six months ago on GN, so thank you whitewave and daphnedill for bringing it up and, hopefully, making us think through this important topic with clarity and without vitriol.

I do agree that there are examples of right-wing and left-wing populism so it is not exclusively a right-wing movement. Looking at the USA in 2015/2016, you could say that Bernie Sanders initiated a left-wing populism and Donald Trump a right-wing one( offspring of The Tea Party Movement). In Europe, we have examples of both, as well.

Of course, depending on our individual political persuasion, we can analyse and interpret these movements as we see them but it is great to discuss the phenomena.

I, for one, am finding this very instructive and one of the reasons I wanted to join GN in the first place, much as I love chatting about my children , grandchildren and other grandmotherly pursuits!

Whitewave, I agree with your description of post war progress but would add that I see an agreement on a level of liberalism (small 'l')in the population at that time. Because those speaking for it started to carry a distorted, overweening part of the national conversation I believe it began to be distorted, currently shown by the closing down on freedom of speech in Universities to enable the so called 'liberal' safe spaces. Liberalism could also be said to have closed down a lot speech that was coming from an illiberal point of view and that made people feel they were not being listened to.

"Isn't populism more about pandering to what is popular at a particular point in time?"

I would say the answer to that is both yes and no Eloethan. Yes because populism does pander to what is popular at a particular point but no in that is does not pander to only one thing that is popular. All those who have had success with this historically have appealed to all the different 'popular' points, sometimes saying one thing to one group and another to a different group.

We have probably always been very tribal but we are showing ourselves to be much mores so currently and I see the populist leader/group trying to appeal to as many of those groups a possible.

Last bit

The second and what I find more difficult can sort of be described as cultural backlash against cultural progressive change but really I think the two are interlinked.

Post war contract experienced expanding opportunities for the young to take advantage of a college education as the result was a rise in cosmopolitism, multiculturalism, environmental protection, human rights, gender equality and support for liberal economics. The expanding educational opportunities took in more and more sectors of the population. But it is argued that the result was a cultural backlash, especially amongst the older generation, white working class and less educated sectors whose only experience of this period was one of decline. There is a rejection of these progressive values with resentment at the erosion of the traditional families norms, and the erosion of privilege and status given once to various sectors of the white working class.

There is as a result a challenge to the legitimacy of the liberal democracy, and a potential disruption to the long established patterns of party competition.

With thanks to numerous papers, articles and reports. References can be supplied

What defines an 'idiot' then?

And it can be any agegroup.

Sorry to go back to a previous point, but I wanted to answer cherrytree. By definition 50% of any group is below average, if 'average' is the median. How intelligence is measured is debatable, but once any measure is decided, 50% will be below average. I'm not being personal.