Humanitarian Crisis in UK

What was the dfate of that scandal, ankers? And what measures were taken to prevent it happening again?

If it has been put right, and the necessary lessons have been learnt and understood, the scandal THEN cannot be blamed on anyone NOW. That is what people are still doing - quoting that as example of NOW.

Assuming this is link is right, or even partly right, I am aghast that it can be dismissed by anyone at all as a "fuss".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford_Hospital_scandal

I'm not dismissing what happened at Mid Staffs and I have every sympathy for POGs after what happened to her mother (and the relatives of other people who died unnecessarily).

My feeling is that this is 'whataboutery'. It seems to me that some people are saying 'It was just as bad under Labour' and trying to undermine/dismiss what's happening now. I have seen for myself how much the services I personally use have deteriorated over the last six years.

My nearest hospital is Addenbrooke's in Cambridge. It's a world class hospital, which was second in the country for patient safety in 2013. In 2015, it was placed in 'special measures' and was deemed inadequate in all categories except personal care. I read the whole report and in almost all areas, the main problem was inadequate staffing. The trust had introduced a new-fangled digital record system, which didn't work properly and had cost millions. Andrew Lansley had praised the system to the hilt when it was introduced, but it almost bankrupted the trust, which had to make staff redundant - hence, the understaffing. My point is that this was an excellent hospital, which had introduced change under pressure without any extra money.

Another factor is that at any one time, an average of just over 7% of beds are blocked by people who don't need to be in hospital, because home care is inadequate in rural Cambridgeshire. I looked at the latest inspection report and this is still a problem, despite improvement in all other areas. The trust is trying to do something about it, but local authorities don't have the money to provide care. Something could be done about that.

I agree with you that we have to move forward and stop the political point scoring and blame.

I think there is hope (well, I don't give up), but we need an effective opposition. Remember 'Education, education, education'? We need an inspirational opposition leader to make an 'NHS NHS NHS' speech.

So the achievements of the Labour government are to be forgotten because of one hospital trust that had real problems, but the chaos resulting from 7 years of Tory cuts has to be blamed on immigrants and the financial crash. I really can't believe that despite all the evidence to the contrary anyone believes that Tories actually believe in the NHS and the welfare state. Listen to someone like Jacob Rees Mogg and his ideas about the state withdrawing and becoming less responsible for every day life. He is the real voice of conservatism and Mrs May is just someone to make the unacceptable palatable.

DD the point about Mid Staffs is valid.

This is not a new problem. Neither is it entirely of the present governments making. Though they certainly have made things even worse.

These facts have to be recognised if we are to move forwards from this ever-worsening situation. And all parties, and their supporters, have to stop blaming each other and understand they have all let the NHS down. Only when inter-party sniping, blaming and the get-one-over-on-the-other-side attitude stop will this problem be tackled effectively.

That of course won't happen. We can't even reach some kind of census on here without taking 'sides' and politicians are just as intransigent.

No hope really,

the £500,000 the government gave the Red Cross in 2015 needs topping up!

Distracting from the dire performance of the last Labour Government?
In any case, since posters want to 'move swiftly on'.... since then we have had an economic crash to contend with and vast numbers of immigration to the UK, how was the NHS ever expected to do well with that double whammy?
Put taxes up, I hear you cry ( and it is on the cards I bet) but you can understand any government not wanting to do that up to now, and making pay packets even smaller.
On the subject of patients waiting ( and even dying) on trolleys, this is not a new phenomenon and has been happening for a long long time in some hospitals.

POGS am so sorry to hear about your Mother, and there will be other poster on here or lurkers to the forum, that have had similar experiences, which should be remembered when posting insensitively as a few posters have done.

If people still say there are problems with Staffs hospital, I believe them.

I also would say though that I think there is a humanitarian crisis in at least some hospitals. And the Red Cross are quite right to highlight it. Good for them.

Our local hospital regularly announces a black alert.
One of its main problems, among many, is that more and more housing is being built with absolutely no increase in hospital facilities. In fact the opposite.
So the system at many times is unable to cope.
Not as bad as Staffs problems though.

Two wrongs don't make a right!

This is distracting from the current situation in the NHS.

POGS Thank you for mentioning Andy Burnham in this thread. I've never forgiven him, and never will for his attitude towards Mid Staffs.
I'm sure you remember his attitude towards the woman who first tried to raise the problems that were happening there. Some people have short/ selective memories.

Stafford Hospital has had its problems.
But we need a County Hospital in our County.
We have marched in our thousands (a point raised by I think by trisher)
We have had for long time a 'sit in protest camp' in the grounds
We have had petitions.
We have had meetings with powers that be.
They say they are listening to us and then in the next breath tell us that they are out sourcing to other hospitals that are all ready stretched.

It seems every week we loose another service there.

I'm sorry if some feel that there is still fuss re Stafford hospital.
But we are living with the consequences.

We are frightened of needing A&E out of hours and having hope the ambulance gets you there in time to another hospital miles away.
And when you get there they have a doctor and a bed!
We are worried for the pregnant mothers, if something goes wrong.
How many times do expectant mothers go in to hospital at their due time to be told 'your not quite there go home and come back when your waters break' etc.
How do they do that when hospitals miles away??
We are worried in case our grandchildren need medical help that is again miles away.

Just days before Stafford hospital closed its evening/night. A&E a friend was rushed to the hospital and happily survived.
if she had to travel all the way up to Stoke she would probably not been here today.

Yes there is a medical crisis all over the UK.
We have in our county been living with it for along time.
I would like to add
It is NOT the fault of the Hospital it is the people in charge.

Trisher

I raised the Francis Report and Mid Staffs Hospital on 'one of the other' durhamjen threads on the NHS recently and you were , shall I say, dismissive of my post at that time too.

Now you have said :-

'It is interesting that such a fuss is still being made about the Stafford hospital which horrendous although it might have been was one hospital in a huge system.'

durhamjen

'It was a fuss.'

I have a very different take on the Francis Report and that period of the NHS than you, durhamjen and probaby others too. The Francis Report DID NOT cover 'just' the Mid Staffs Hospital.

I cannot find the threads that were on Gransnet at the time of the North Staffs problems but without going into detail of a distressing period of my life all I will say is this, as I did on those threads, my mother died in one of the hospitals in the top 10 list of worst hospitals and there were major problems under the Labour government and NHS back then ,

I have tried to find the Gransnet threads in 'Search' on Mid Staffs and the Francis Inquiry/Report to bump them as it appears some posters are happy to forget the horrible problems surrounding the NHS at that time. I will never forget Andy Burnham and the government at that time but I suppose you would think I was 'just making a fuss'.

I will not respond to any posts as it would be futile but I can't let the ignorance of the findings of the Francis Report/Inquiry go unremembered and for the sake of 'honest' reading, not b----y Skawkbox, I suggest people read the Francis Inquiry Report for themselves or listen to the Parliamentary Health Select Committee Meetings which obviously interviewed Francis and other NHS bodies.

I am not defending this government, I am not dismissing the issues surrounding the NHS now but I will remind posters to my dying day to please stop dismissing the problems in our hospitals at that time of the Mid Staffs scandal and most certainly do not accuse those of us who lost family due to negligence to 'stop fussing'.

And applications to nursing/midwifery courses are well down .Anything to do with abolishing the bursary ?

Read a report last week that said 48%of NHS staff admit to sufering depression and/or stress .Sickness levels are at a record high .It is soul destroying feeling you can't do your job and care for your patients properly because of severe understaffing.I fear for the mental health of my daughter who works in the NHS .Jeremy Hunt should be sacked .

Obviously we know where Jeremy Hunt was today - but he might have disappeared since his speech.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-hunt-theresa-may-health-committee-nhs-humanitarian-crisis-a7516216.html

See what you mean about Stoke hospital, Cherrytree.

"In November, 237 patients waited more than 12 hours to get a bed at the Royal Stoke university hospital, while some ambulance crews were stuck outside hospitals in Merseyside last week for up to eight hours, unable to hand over their patients to A&E staff. A number of trusts – including Lewisham in London, Mid Essex, Addenbrooke’s in Cambridge and East and North Hertfordshire – had to declare a red or black alert on Monday because they were so hard-pressed."
According to Hunt it was just one or two hospitals having problems. Hunt needs to go.

Has it struck Jeremy Hunt that the 4 hour target could be easily achieved if there were enough GPs for people with less serious problems.

I have used Stafford hospital on several occasions.
My DD was born there quite safely in the mid 80s.
I have had consultations there with out any problems.
However when my father had a major stroke in 2003. My sister and I experienced very difficult times on the occasions when our father was admitted as a patent. (Over several years)
We would do shifts to make sure he had yogurt ,ice-cream (the only food he could manage) and drinks.
I could list all the lack of care problems we had. (But still find it upsetting)
Waiting in a queue with my father on a trolley (sometimes under tarpaulin) and ambulance staff unable to go to next call out as they had to hand him over to a nurse who was never available.
And misdiagnosis
Like every other hospital there was good and bad staff
One of the problems was trying to communicate with nurses with very little English.

The maternity care has always b been excellent and Stafford took in from other hospitals when they were stretched
Both my GS were born at the hospital the care was excellent but it was decided to close the maternity unit so now the other hospital are stretched even further.
Last year my GS had to attend the childrens A&E at Stafford hospital
He was seen immediately and the care was excellent.
But now that dept has been closed because of lack of specialised care doctors & nurses

Stafford hospital now renamed as County Hospital is struggling to attract new medical staff because off bad press
For all its short comings the staff have battled on.
I would still rather go to Stafford hospital than battle up the M6
(hoping its not at a stand still) to Stoke Hospital which is over stretched

Children have go to either Stoke or Wolverhampton. The extra time it take is putting their lives at risk.
Sorry for the long post but its something that is part of our daily lives and not just a story in a newspaper.

Another strange part of Hunt's speech.
He says that only those who need urgent treatment should be seen within the four hours.
Isn't that what happens? It's called triage. All hospitals use triage.

And does it matter if it was a 'humaritariab' crisis or another kind of 'crisis'?

When is it right to spend the last hours of your life on a trolley, untreated?

Making a 'fuss' because your mother, sister, baby died at Stafford as a result of gross negligence? Just get a grip folks that was several years ago. You ought to be 'over it' by now.

wonderful attitude

I would rather we had a properly funded NHS randrwhere people are cared for properly both in hospital and at home. I would prefer not to have to depend upon a charity which could be working in poorer countries if only we had a government which was prepared to spend money on the NHS. It is disgusting that a rich country cannot care for its sick and vulnerable properly.

Well, it gets paid for doing it, it's not being 'used' what would people rather happened?

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/01/09/jeremy-hunt-is-lying-data-shows-january-is-often-the-quietest-time-of-the-year-for-a-e-departments/

Not true yet, roses. January is often the quietest month of the year. Jeremy Hunt lying again.

The Red Cross are involved because there is nobody else to do it, roses.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jan/09/nhs-humanitarian-crisis-conservatives-british-red-cross

The number of patients it has had to help to get home has gone up from 60,000 to 80,000 over the last three years.
It gets paid to do this, but it's being treated like an ambulance transport service. If the Red Cross didn't do this, who would?