Wheelchairs versus buggies court ruling

We need bus conductors back !!! Help with buggies and information and just a hand when needed with shopping or getting on and off....all those jobs that made life easier have been wiped out.

I welcome the electronic bus stops which do indicate when the next bus is due and any problems so at least you can make decisions about whether to wait or not.

The first McLaren buggies have never been bettered, mine lasted ages despite constant abuse but mums now have more than one monster thing per child..........like people who use huge cars for the school run, inconsiderate about pace and how to share it.

It's a status symbol like a Chelsea tractor luckygirl. Bernie Ecclestone's daughter has apparently got about six of those buggies one is studded with crystals. Epitome of good taste !!

It does sound sensible to only allow folding buggies on buses. I cannot understand why you would buy a great big one anyway, regardless of buses.

I agree that we cannot leave it to common courtesy ( not so common!) especially on buses and trains.If you travel by bus a lot, or even now and then with a baby, buy a cheaper foldable buggy, simples.Meanwhile it needs to become law that a wheelchair user has the absolute right to that space.

I remember a similar thread to this a while back and I said that I had lost count how many times my poor mum and dad had been left standing at the bus stop when a mother(s) refused to fold their buggies up . There was only one bus to/from town and a very long wait for the next one . The drivers were powerless and it was all down to common courtesy which sadly some people do not have . This new ruling is a step in the right direction .

I agree with most people about this, very difficult for the driver in this situation. Buses should allow folding buggies only, why can't the owners of the big buggies have a smaller folding buggy for use on the bus.
I remember the tansad pushchairs, I had a cumfifolda one which folded easily and was cheap. My husband had some overtime money and bought a Silver Cross one but it was so heavy I couldn't manage it on the bus so back to the cheap one.
There does seem to be a lack of care and compassion with some people now. ( of all ages )

Pleased to read that about MN Rigby.

The disabled person had no choice but to use a wheelchair, the mothers with these enormous pushchairs for have a choice. Don't have such enormous buggies if you travel by bus, get a smaller one,they are threatening as the person pushing them usually just barges through, they take up all the space when you are on a bus or eating out, they just get in the way and are just not necessary, I think they should have yo pay fir them when on a bus. Is the disabled person ejected from a bus, yo sut giro ethos another hou in the hope he will be able to get on the next bus. I think bigger buggies are becoming a status symbol for some of these young mothers. No I don't dislike babies, quite the opposite, but the thought of do someone disabled not bring able to get out and about is upsetting.

Lucky but they do not need equal consideration. Chelsea tractor buggies and other non foldable buggies can only get on buses today because disabled people fought long and hard to make buses accessible for wheel chairs.The threads on MN on this topic are full of examples of wonderful mothers who, knowing they would be using buses, bought foldable, suitable buggies for their babies. They do not consider that they deserve the same rights as wheelchair users for those spaces but should plan to be able to manage without stealing the rights of wheelchair users.

It is unfortunate that this came to court. Both those in wheelchairs and parents with buggies need proper consideration. What a pity it could not have been settled with common sense.

Last time I travelled by bus a lady was sitting in the seat for those with "impaired mobility" - it is the one near the door - and she had a buggy in the wheelchair space. I did not get into an argument with her but went on up the bus to a somewhat difficult seat. The bottom line is that it is hard to cater from everyone as no-one knows who is going to get on the bus.

And of course we can't predict when a wheelchair user might want to use a bus - we can't predict use of disabled toilets either but we still provide them. Bus companies already have rules that drivers have to enforce like paying your fare, not drinking alcohol - this is just another one

We should be careful not to spin this into the ridiculous - this case was caused by a selfish woman who didn't want to disturb her sleeping baby. Tough. Of course the law needs changing but in the meantime, drivers can be trained, notices can be put up in buses and at bus stops and people men or women.who refuse to move can be shamed by the rest of us. And buy a foldable buggy and not a status symbol.

Oh, and also, I wouldn't have thought it was any good the driver ringing the police. If the law doesn't categorically state that wheelchair users have priority to the space then the mum won't have broken the law and I'm assuming all the police can do is ask her nicely to shift. By the way, isn't it funny we only talk of young mums, don't young dad's ever use the bus?

And meanwhile the poor driver will have some passengers happy for him to wait it out, and others who will not be quite so accomodating to say the least!

I quite agree, the drivers have been left in absolute limbo and, as I've said, I truly believe that most young mums are reasonable and considerate but, what will the driver do if one mum refuses to budge. This new law does not say she has to move, the driver cannot force her to move and, it's fine saying he can turn the engine off but if she's the sort of person who doesn't care that isn't going to force her hand, she will just sit it out

grannyben I agree with your first couple of sentences.

The only way that disabled passengers can be guaranteed the space is to ban non-folding buggies from buses.

At the moment, there are too many imponderables. Supposing a mum and buggy are waiting at a bus stop. Bus stops; mum and buggy get on, purchase a ticket, sit down with buggy in wheelchair space. So far, no problem. In fact, the problem of buggies-whether folded or not- taking up disabled space only arises if a disabled person with wheelchair gets on the bus. My question is: does the possibility-no matter how remote-of a disabled person wishing to take up a disabled place justify refusing a mum and buggy from using the bus?

Im not sure if I'm making sense, but what I'm trying to say is that it's impossible to predict who is going to be using the bus on any given day. There may be disabled people; there may not. There may be buggies; there may not. Most of the time, people muddle through by making compromises, and by being considerate. And what happens if there's a disabled child in a buggy? What if there's more than one wheelchair user wishing to get on at the same stop?

It seems to me that this legislation was passed in haste, with little thought to how it was going to be implemented in reality. The driver can "require" all s/he likes, but has no actual power to enforce the law.

I can remember using buses in the days of the blue and white Maclaren buggy. Folded up under the stairs and the baby on my lap. Of course in those days there was no provision at all for wheelchairs on a bus, or in a taxi. Presumably the disabled either got a lift from a friend or stayed at home.

The worst thing in those days was the fact that pushchairs weren't allowed in cafes. Having a cup of tea meant risking leaving the buggy outside and trying to wrestle a fractious infant on your lap while trying to drink the tea. The girls today with their massive pushchairs don't know the half of it.

Oh, I'm so divided on this (I may put my tin hat on). On one hand, I don't think this ruling has done any good whatsoever; the poor bus driver has just been left like piggy in the middle. The law should have been made clear, a disabled passenger either has an absolute right to the space or they don't. On the other hand, it does seem like mother's seem to be an easy target. I'm sure most are quite reasonable human beings and it can't be fair to tar them all with the same brush. On a personal note, I use the bus every day. I frequently have my young grandson with me and I am in quite poor health having had major spinal surgery (thankfully I do not need to use a wheelchair). I always use the space if it is available but if someone with a newborn gets on I automatically put mine down as our little one is quite capable of sitting on my knee. Similarly, if the bus is full, I will move the pushchair into the corner and offer my seat if I see someone who I think needs it more. However, last week, I got on the bus and just prior to the bus departing a young man got on in an electric wheelchair. I immediately moved the sleeping baby, bags and pushchair to make way for him. Not a word of thanks (politeness goes both ways) and we literally went round the corner and he got off at the next stop. He was in an electric chair, he wasn't pushing.

Yes. we do need seats but I notice on buses I've been on in Europe that many seem to have larger spaces without seats and more people expect to stand.

Rigby My DGS's buggy was supposedly 'easy', but it was nothing like the very simple Mothercare one I had 30+ years ago!

Maizie simple folding buggies still exist but are not considered 'smart' enough by some. There's an issue about lots of space for buggies and wheelchairs - we need seats as well.

I dont think the ruling has gone far enough.

And makes bus drivers' lives more difficult.

There may be other subjects we agree on too!

Just for once I agree with roses about the size/complexity of modern pushchairs.

There really should be space on buses for wheelchairs and pushchairs. When my children were small I could manage a toddler, a baby, a pushchair and shopping on the bus; the pushchair was a buggy and very easy to fold with one hand. I wouldn't care to be trying that with modern buggys. As for pushchairs! I couldn't manage to fold up my GS's pushchair base with two hands and all the time in the world (i.e in a car park trying to get it into the boot of my car). No way could I have managed it on a bus (plus a baby, of course) I couldn't even easily come to terms with the buggy they bought when he was older...

Yes you're right, it does need new legislation but in the meantime, as I said, the drivers may need some training and local bus companies could put up notices on buses and at bus stops saying what their policy is - only foldable buggies that must be folded if a wheelchair user needs the space and we don't care if your baby has just got off to sleep. What's particular unfair is that disability rights campaigners fought long and hard to get these spaces on buses and now some entitled mothers think they can piggy back onto and usurp these hard won rights