UK govt. - effective opposition?

It will be interesting to see what line Labour takes in the Stoke by-election. I must admit I have a very bad feeling about it, especially because Nuttall is an unpleasant bully. He was caught out 'embellishing' his CV, but nobody seems to care about that kind of thing these days. He is also on record as saying he wants to privatise all healthcare.

I really hope that Labour can get its act together and hang on.

Do they care?? Off pheasant shooting and giving lucrative chats - leaving us idiots to pick up the pieces.

I certainly don't think those two contributed positively to the Remain campaign.

Do you think so? I didn't. I voted Remain, because I truly believe it would have been the better option for the country. I can't stand Cameron or Osborne either.

dd, probably quite a few who voted to remain in the EU did so because of their dislike of Nigel Farage and all he represents.

I am sure that if we don't take action (and history tells us that it will highly unlikely) to mitigate against the result and logic of free trade and globalisation - which we in Britain will now come up against as a result of Brexit, those poorest in our society will be the biggest losers.

What made your husband change his mind, TriciaF?

But that's what so many others have been claiming, ie for many people, it was an opportunity for a protest vote rather than based on any kind of sound reasoning. Maybe you can understand why so many Remainers are frustrated with it all. I accept the result, because I have to, but I'm not happy about it. If I were absolutely confident that good reasons had been put forward, I would mind much less. It is so obvious that those who wanted to 'take back control' the most - and probably do need a sense of control over their communities and their lives - are going to lose out most.

This is what the boss of one of Europe's largest private equity firms thinks...

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-guy-hands-says-cut-wages-30-percent-twenty-years-private-equity-a7540986.html

At least he's transparent enough to say that he will be a big winner, which is why some big financiers voted Leave, but the poorest (ie those who tended to vote Leave) will lose out most. That's what many people have been saying all along!

Goodness, that's the worst reason for voting to Leave that I've heard yet - just to spite those two...

I've just looked at the analysis of votes for Brexit in the NE, and the only place to vote 'stay' was Newcastle.
The MP for Gateshead said that the main reason for voting leave was dislike of Cameron and Osborne ( which was my husband's initial reason, though he's changed now.) A very poor basis for such a choice imo.

all sorts here!!

I said that there was a 'tendency', not that it was true in all cases. Let's face it, you're a bit idiosyncratic in Brighton!

Brighton and Hove voted remain, and we are Green, Labour and Tory.

MaizieD I think you'll find that most of the Labour voters who voted Remain were in London, Manchester and Liverpool. If you take them out of the equation, Labour voters in small and medium-sized towns tended to vote Leave.

I see what you mean now, MOnica.

I think that had Labour made more effort to help the former mining and industrial areas and been more positive about narrowing the income gap, instead of being perfectly relaxed about people being filthy rich, there might have been less worry about immigration because more people would have been in work and better paid.

It's all very well proposing that Labour core voters were bothered about immigration but 63% of labour voters voted Remain.

MOnica That is true in some Labour areas, which voted Brexit, but not in all, by any means. For example, Hartlepool has a very low number of immigrants and the percentage of immigrants in Stoke is below the national average. On the other hand, London and Manchester have a high percentage, as does Cambridge. Areas which have suffered economically tended to vote Leave, whereas those which have prospered voted Remain, regardless of immigration. It's probable that immigration became a scapegoat for people's anger. There's also the issue of culture. Areas with high numbers of elderly people also tended to vote Leave, regardless of the number of immigrants who lived in their areas.

The ridiculous thing about immigration is that the number of immigrants from non-EU countries is higher than from EU countries and always has been. There was no reason at all why that couldn't have been curbed, because the UK has full control over immigration from non-EU countries.

There was a vox pop interview with somebody before the referendum. A man was asked why he was voting 'out' and he stated that it was so all the Muslims would be sent home. Brick wall anyone?

JessM Yes, I frequently want to slap male politicians. It's a coincidence they're both female.

I think that Maizie because when you listen to what is being said in vox pop interviews, in surveys, and in a number of radio programmes the one thing that worries many people in areas of the country where labour is dominant (and made them vote for Brexit) is the surge of immigration into the country.

I am not making any value judgements on that, the majority do not sound racist, but I have yet to hear that the Guardian and its journalists are nailing their flags to the mast head for a clamp down on immigration. They are like so many right-thinking comfortably off lefties, very international and internationalist in their thinking. I probably think much as they do, but that is not how many core labour supporters think

The main problem that the Labour Party has, is that it has llost touch with its roots

Here's the opposition response to this morning's Supreme Court defeat

A spokesperson for Jeremy Corbyn said in response to Theresa May’s Supreme Court defeat on Brexit:

Labour respects the result of the referendum and the will of the British people and will not frustrate the process for invoking Article 50.

However, Labour will seek to amend the Article 50 Bill to prevent the Conservatives using Brexit to turn Britain into a bargain basement tax haven off the coast of Europe.

Labour will seek to build in the principles of full, tariff-free access to the single market and maintenance of workers’ rights and social and environmental protections.

Labour is demanding a plan from the Government to ensure it is accountable to Parliament throughout the negotiations and a meaningful vote to ensure the final deal is given Parliamentary approval.

daphnedill do you ever want to "slap" male politicians?

Good post Gilly

That made me laugh ab ( did he have to wear that bloody hat!)

I think that Labour is the only party that could ever take over government in this country although not until they have a massive internal shakeup. I was a fully paid up member of the LP until around 10 years ago when I refused to renew my membership. At that time DH and I were struggling with our small business and I felt that the LP only cared about the public sector and effectively saw anyone in business as an easy target. My feelings haven't changed except that with JC as a leader the LP are even deeper in the pockets of the public sector and moreover the unions who dictate their policies. I would love to see a LP that cared about all workers a LP that supported small enterprise (whom we are told are the back bone of the U.K.) and a LP that was not afraid to stand up to some of the very powerful unions who are able to hold the country to ransom for nothing except sheer greed.

We still live in a class-ridden society. Inverted snobbery is a bad as snobbery.

A reminder of the updated version of the famous Two Ronnies sketch:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JSahEDRjvw

Catching up with this thread, interesting discussion which so far seems to have avoided the descent into personal attacks that sometimes feature on political threads.
It's no secret that I finally left the LP some months ago because I don't believe in JC or the people he surrounds himself with. We don't have an effective opposition which is disastrous for the country given the continued austerity agenda. Theresa talks a good talk about equality etc, her speech on the steps of Number 10 could have been made a a Labour PM. So far, the talk isn't leading to improvements in public services or the NHS. Someone said earlier, this "elit" who are blamed for all our ills seem primarily to be made up of public servants and wealthy celebrities.
As a former public servant, who retired after almost 40 years commitment to trying to help the vulnerable, I am outraged that as a country we claim to be unable to afford to invest in education, housing, services for children/adults etc.
The LP needs to work with the other opposition parties to oppose this government.