Political Correctness

Yes thanks for that nell I should have had the sense to look it up myself, and it is obvious really. Nothing new under the sun. I guess people's privacy was more respected then. But it was certainly something I was never aware of.

Hear hear MaizieD

I am surprised it was that early.

whitewave
Of course this has always been around. It was just that it was never openly talked about. There was no question then of any safe surgery to alter gender being possible.
Not until the 1930s or later.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery_(male-to-female)

I don't know if it's the same thing as transgender, but it's estimated that one in 1,500 babies are born with indeterminate genitalia. Even analysing chromosomes etc can't always determine which is which.
When I was working I came across one little boy with no penis, just a hole in his stomach. Perhaps some of these go for plastic surgery later.
Going back to PC, perhaps it's connected to fear of being sued?

I remember the midwife running the pre-natal course telling me that labour may be 'a bit uncomfortable'

GrandmaKT Thu 02-Feb-17 22:35:37
The medics changed the words to feel a small scratch rather than a small prick when you have blood taken. It was not about political correctness it was probably that staff were sick of the stupid and sometimes vulgar responses they were subject to.

It has never been illegal for women to have same sex relationships. From 1967 for men.

Iam64 my DM had never heard of lesbians until the 1960s when I explained it to her and she was extremely surprised (well poleaxed) and didn't really believe me although, of course, she knew about homosexuality amongst males.

There must have been many people who led miserable lives for all kinds of reasons years ago - gay men getting married for appearances' sake (and probably their wives were made miserable too) although I am not sure women did the same because it was not considered unusual for 'spinsters' to live together; several of my teachers did so and we were vaguely aware that the relationship was more than convenience.
And perhaps people who thought they were in the wrong bodies just said nothing and kept themselves to themselves on the fringes of society?

There have always been people living and dressing in the opposite gender. Does it seems more common now because we have a more open society, better understanding of psychological, psycho sexual issues? My mother claimed only to have known lesbian women when she was in the army during the war and never to have met a gay man. That has never been so in my adult life and gay or lesbian friends or family have always been 'out' while my own children were growing up. In their friendship circles, being gay or lesbian has never been an issue. Presumably this more open and relaxed approach to some difference means it's a little easier for those who feel they're in the wrong bodies

Don't take offence rigby this is just a quick post as daughter is turning up. I'll rewrite the question so that it is less colloquial.

When I was a young I was never aware of the issue of transgender. I have worked andmanaged two people who went through the process in later years both from male to female. They were given every assistance possible and as far as I am aware leading successful lives as women. I have worked and have a relative as well as friends who are lesbian or gay - I live in Brighton which has the largest community outside of London. So being a member of the LGBT community is nothing to be remarked on which is my remark of "she just turned out to be gay" I.e. Nothing unusual.

I simply remarked that I was completely unaware of transgender and those in difficulties regarding this phenomenon until recent years. Simples.

WW Dont think it is LGBT anymore i am sure it is now more PC to say pansexual instead of bisexual. Do keep up WW

Rigbyi am sure there is a difference between being Gay and feeling you have been born in the wrong body. My Nephew is Gay but doesnt want to be a woman.

I think that there have always been people with gender dysphoria. Different eras/societies will have (& do) dealt with the situation differently. Many people will have become ill with depression, been locked away in mental institutions ,commited suicide and mostly even closest family may not have known about it. There is more openess now and better understanding but that won't make it much easier for those struggling with gender dysphoria.

But was it PC. Unfortunately nowadays some people take offense at everything and anything.

What on earth are you on about Rigby?

I've just read WW's post several times and I cannot for the life of me see what brought on your accusations of 'expecting better'. She asks a reasonable question 'has [this] always been sround?' and follows it up with a non-judgemental comment about her own lack of personal experience re this issue.

I thought she was asking for answers rather than anything warranting being attacked.

There's some pretty cheap gibes on here about transgender issues. WW I expected better of you than your last comment. People used to say that sort of thing about gay people until we knew better about how many there really were and how many of them had led lives of quiet desperation and fear. Just this last week we have 'pardoned' gay people. I can't begin to imagine how it must feel to be living in the wrong body - just as I can't imagine how awful it used to be gay ( and still is in some cases) and have to hide it.

Has this been a phenomenon that has always been around? I don't remember it years ago. There was a girl in our class who was classed as a tom boy but she just turned out to be gay.

Men wanting kids feels different to me from someone "deciding to have a baby", which seems to me to be about being physically able to gestate. I really do feel sorry for someone so mixed up about what gender they are or want to be. It sounds very uncomfortable psychologically.

I have heard of men lactating but whether it was fake news I don't know, nor whether it would be enough to feed a baby.

He'll have great difficulty breast-feeding without breasts!!!

I heard the interview with the transgender person on Woman's Hour too and think the man said he had had his breasts removed. Whether that means he cannot breast feed I am not sure. I think he said he had a partner but whether that person is male or female was not divulged. He also said he had to stop taking testestorone in order to get pregnant and will carry on with that after the baby is born. Makes me feel uneasy - does he want to be male or female?

Men want babies too though Anya
But normally without all the inconvenience involved in the process!

I just wondered if she would change her mind when the baby arrives and she may want to breastfeed it, feel all that motherly bonding. I know fathers bond too but, as a female, I don't have much idea about how that differs from the mother/child bond.

And I am rather too about whether or not this person has a partner, male or female.

And if I met the pregnant person I would be unsure how to address her at the moment. She must still be a woman. It is biologically impossible for a male to carry a baby in a womb.

To change the directions from the NHS to doctors seems unnecessary.

Political correctness to me is simply good manners. So you give consideration to the LGBT folk and women and different faiths and nationalities.

I brought the 'pregnant person' issue up because I was interested to see people's reaction. It was on Woman's Hour a few days ago so can probably be heard again as a podcast. I didn't hear the whole discussion but I think the transgender interviewee had been born a woman and hadn't completed his/her reassignment. S/he still had a womb and ovaries. Not sure about whether she had had her breasts removed or not.

Feeling broody is not solely a woman's preserve so I imagine the person concerned wanted a child before it was too late.

I confess that it scrambled my head a bit though I am trying to stop myself from being judgemental. Even the transgender person thought that the language issue was a bit OTT.