Labour now

That's not undermining him, is it not?

I heard about the 'bed blocking' at lunchtime too ab. Not much to say really! I'll leave you with it!!!

Jen, no one needs to undermine Corbyn, he is doing a great job of making a prat of himself without help.

When new labour took hold of the party it win three elections, that was a decline ?

When the left took labour into the wilderness. For fourteen years that was a success ?

A young political expert! has just put forward how lsbour can succeed, he thinks there is much bed blocking by older MP's preventing young MP's from moving upward and helping Corbyn win

Diane Abbott is 63, John McDonald 66, Thornberry a baby at 56

Corbyn 69

"The decline in Labour support in these areas did not start when Jeremy Corbyn was elected Labour leader; it started when a New Labour project took hold of our party and decided to ignore working class communities across the country. The fragility of Labour's core vote in Scotland and the North was an issue long before Corbyn arrived as an easy scapegoat for the existential crisis that we face as a party. It would also be wrong to deny the impact of a concerted effort by members of the Parliamentary Labour Party to undermine Jeremy Corbyn since the day he was elected. Indeed Peter Mandelson proudly admitted recently that he works "every day to undermine Jeremy Corbyn." "

www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-copeland-defeat-by-election-stoke-ukip-tory-conservative-victory-problem-a7597141.html

They would if all the people who say that's what they want voted for them.

Hello llovecheese, do you think labour will win the next election to carry out what you listed and what we all want?

I have been extremely nervous about posting on the political threads (only joined Gransnet a couple of days ago) but Badenkate has expressed how I too feel. I'm just an ordinary grandmother, I don't belong to any pressure group.
I voted for Jeremy Corbyn twice because I agree with his policies.
E.G.
A cap on high rents.
An end to zero hours contracts that don't allow people to work for anyone else.
Building council houses.
Ending the bedroom tax.
Just to name a few.
I also think that the NHS would never have got off the ground in the current political climate, it would have been considered too radical and "hard left".

rosesarered

Re David Milliband ,'Nowt New ' he has consistently been opposed to Corbyn's Leadership.

Not too sure if David Milliband would be good for Labour to be honest, he does carry some pretty heavy baggage.

The unions are now saying we need to win back the working class, oh deary me

So short sighted as almost certainly David would have won an election which lets face it is what politics is about! As it is I just can't see how Labour can pull back at least not for many years. I suppose I should be glad, but somehow I'm not!

trisher 10.37

Thank you for replying to my question.

We agree niggly, Ed won because of the unions , David was too centre, Ed more to the left so they elected Ed

If David and not Ed Milliband had won that leadership contest, I would be fairly certain that Labour would have won the 2010 election, no referendum, (probably a good thing!!) and It would be the Tories in disarray not Labour. If I were a LP member, I would be looking back at that lost chance with dismay and a certain amount of bitterness. As it is we have a Tory government, (not under D.C. thank goodness) which is ok by me, except for the fact that having such a weak opposition is not good news for democracy, and the fact of any government having a completely free reign is disturbing. All governments however much they are supported, need robust opposition and at times reigning in. J.C and his front bench are simply not doing this, Mrs May makes mincemeat of Mr Corbyn which is 'good' BUT, worrying and at times embarrassing!

Thank you Rosesarered, I was thinking my posts were ignored

Ditto Gracesgran

Realy BadenKate? Think of Copeland, holding onto jobs was more important than closing of hospitals . Yes unemployment is fearful, dying for lack of medical care is terrifying .

I have always said Labour has to move to the centre to keep labour seats, but not do as May is doing, talk the talk but not walk the walk.

Labour has lost Scotland, it will lose seats with the boundery changes, winning an election seems more than highly unlikely , if we don't move to the centre we will lose many more seats making winning impossible.

I care about the vunerable , so I will support any leader who can win seats , who wants to pass a homeless person and say - I am sorry I couldn't help you but my principles come before your welfare

I agree with you Badenkate although am not surprised that ab does as it seems to me that she has always espoused those views on GN.

You are accusing me of something I didn't say Annie. I will go back to ignoring your comments as taking them seriously is really not worth the candle.

David Miliband saying this morning much the same things as some of us are saying on here, about the Labour Party being unelectable.Wonder if he is waiting in the wings, and also wonder what would have happened if he and not his brother had been the Leader a few years ago.

No attacks Badenkate and I doubt you are the only one feeling as you do You say:

Listening to people and their concerns, it seems to me that people are much more self-centred and interested in their own concerns than ever before. I doubt that it would be possible these days to get support for ideas such as the NHS and social care services if they were newly introduced. The labour party, as I have always believed in and supported it,I feel is destined to be a pressure group but no longer a main political party.

I have just started reading "Citizen Clem" which has been well reviewed and, it was suggested, may have been T May's reading last summer - an interesting thought. Clement Attlee quoted this:

In our modern life the sense of unity is not realised, and all the pervading duties of citizenship are lost sight of in the wilderness of interests of both individuals and groups. Our extraordinarily complex life, our far too numerous activities, our strong assertion of individual liberty which we very imperfectly understand, and the assumed importance of our occupation as self-seekers and self-developers - all these things tend to drive the citizen idea into the background. Yet in theory and also in fact it is still the necessary and single basis of social duty and social morality.

You might well think the writer was talking of today but Clement Attlee was quoting this in the Socialist Worker in 1920 from E J Urwick's 'A Philosophy of Social Progress' written in 1912.

Attlee said his emotions on becoming Prime Minister in 1945 were 'Just to know there were jobs to be done' (John Bew 2016). Personally, I see the recent changes, mainly of globalisation which appears to have changed our view of the world just as WWII did pre 1945, needs an Atlee style government but I don't think we have frightened ourselves enough yet; we still all feel recent events will affect someone else.

They say 'Cometh the hour, cometh the man' and, in my opinion, that 'man' is often not recognised until after the event but I do hope the right person is there for us as I don't think recent events will affect others - I think they will affect us all.

Gosh Anniebach, I don't know why but that surprised me.

I agree BadenKate