Labour now

Labour? what's that, does it still exist? Serious need for reform or even a new party name. Im working class and am embarrassed by the sheer name of the party now.

No Daphne, I wouldn't like to explain and your posts accusing me of putting you down followed by your lecture on NIC were both offensive

I expect you can't help your know-it-all smugness either, daphnedill - never mind, only a couple of more posts to go on this thread!

I have nothing to get over Ana and your rudeness doesn't bother me any more. I expect you can't help yourself. Your problem, not mine.

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Kuenssberg actually spotted the anomaly before Hammond's climb-down.

After the budget, the right-wing media and supporters were on social media within hours complaining about it and it was headline news the next day.

As soon as social media started kicking off (the same day as the budget), Kuennsberg posted on Twitter that it was only the media which was complaining. She wrote that she couldn't see anything wrong with the announcement and defended the government. She even pointed out that protecting Class 4 contributions hadn't been in the legislation which had followed the Conservative's election, so was still defending the government.

Hammond didn't climb down until after all this had happened. Kuennsberg defended the government all along, but didn't champion the cause of the people who were going to lose out from the climb down.

I'm not wrong about any of that.

Ofgs, we were talking amongst ourselves as to media/BBC right or left-wing bias. Do get over yourself daphnedill.

OK! I've scrolled back to the previous page and I can see that it was Laura Kuenssberg who was being described as right-wing. I assumed it was May, so I apologise.

Kuenssberg was the first to spot that the media reaction to the NICs was wrong and that the poorest self-employed weren't complaining. She realised that it was media spin which was going viral and her journalistic instincts kicked in. As far as I know, she hasn't given any opinion about whether the announcement was right or wrong.

So wind your necks in, you three. There was no clanger apart from the right-wing U-turn.

Annie's post referred to Laura Kuenssberg's news report about Hammond's humiliating climb-down after his budget announcement re NIC contributions daphnedill.

It was meant to indicate that she can hardly be a die-hard right-winger, but obviously you missed that...

I agree with you Fitzy that the LibDems wouldn't feel comfortable about partnering with this Labour Party. However, I don't agree that they would be uncomfortable partnering with a more centrist Labour Party. In fact, there's some evidence that they would be prepared to be part of a progressive alliance with the Labour Party and the Greens.

So maybe you'd like to explain, to clarify matters.

The only clanger was May's giving in to right-wing pressure.

By the time of the next election Brexit will be over and done; and I'm doubtful that the LDs would feel very comfortable with partnering this Labour Party.
GN your figures are interesting, but it's voting figures that matter. The left wing policies have attracted a few hundred thousand members and lost them millions of votes.

Anniebach I know you're on the look out to put me down at every opportunity and I don't care any more.

For somebody who claims to care about the poorest, you appear to know nothing about NICs work for the poorest.

The original announcement about increases in NICs would have benefited anybody earning less than £16,000 and the wealthier self-employed would have paid a fairer contribution.

There's a separate issue about the abolition of Class 2 contributions, which makes the very poorest £470 a year worse off.

I'm not wrong to think that the poorest shouldn't be penalised in that way.

Becsuse you were wrong in your assumption of what I meant by clanger Daphne , Ana understood,.

In what way have I misunderstood Ana and Anniebach?

I'm not wrong. The original announcement wasn't a clanger. The U-turn was.

Theresa May was in the wrong too.

Iam64 I don't think the LibDems have ruled out working with Labour in a coalition, but it would depend on the leader.

More United, which was started by Paddy Ashdown and is seen by some as a front for the LibDems, supported the Labour candidate, Gareth Snell, in the Stoke by election.

The LibDems could never work with a pro-Brexit Conservative party.

You are right Ana, Daphne is wrong

I think you may have misunderstood what Annie meant, daphnedill.

The budget NICs announcement wasn't a clanger!!

The Conservatives were prepared to break their own manifesto pledge to make NICs fairer and more progressive.

She did a U-turn, because the right-wing media and backbenchers put pressure on her. That's not economic competence.

It's a shame that some Labour MPs and supporters fell for the media hype too. It would appear that they have no idea how NICs work in practice, particularly for the lowest paid.

To their credit, a few Labour MPs and some journalists spotted the anomaly. It's now been taken up as an issue by Radio 4's 'Money Box' and the Low Incomes Tax Reform Group. The Resolution Foundation and the Institute for Fiscal Studies have promised to look into the issue.

What May did wasn't economic competence. It was political expediency and cowardice in making Hammond the patsy.

I thought this was interesting. I know some of you won't but somebody may.

Conservative & Labour membership numbers 1950-present
1951 Conservative 2.9m - Labour 876,000
1971 Conservative 1.3m - Labour 700,000
1981 Conservative 1.2m - Labour 277,000
1991 Conservative 0.5m - Labour 261,000
2001 Conservative 311,000 - Labour 272,000
2011 Conservative 177,000 - Labour 190,000
2017 Conservative 149,000, Labour 528,000

It is understandable that voters see May as a safe pair of hands considering the oposition

Yes soooooooo right wing it was she who spoke of the budget NIC clanger first

Jalima, I hope you're right but I honestly believe the next election is lost so far as the LP is concerned. Tim Farron seems to be angling to be part of a coalition in the event of a small tory majority but I can't see that happening. Tim has evidently ruled out being part of a coalition with a Labour government. I'd like to see a strong LibDem party but feel they haven't yet regained respect, in addition, if the Labour leadership wasn't so poor, the poor leadership in the LibDems would be highlighted more often.
I don't like what the government is doing to public services, to the poor, the disabled and other vulnerable groups. It seems though, that despite many people sharing my dislike of many of their policies, their general approach, Theresa May is seen as a 'safe pair of hands' when compared to the opposition.

Well I'm going to say something very controversial now - I think BBC reporting is pretty fairly balanced!

Well, yes, that's true of course Beammeup, but it's not what the left-wingers on here choose to believe!

With the BBC you pay your money and take your choice. Most of the criticism that falls on my ears is that it has a left-wing bias!