English Scots for YES

What puzzles me is why manysome of the Scottish people seem hell bent on ridding themselves of the "dreaded" English/British/UK government and yet are very happy to be governed by Europe.

Yes London is far richer than Scotland, in fact it is possibly far richer than the rest of the UK put together (happy to be corrected). As a Northerner I feel like we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. We do not benefit from the wealth of the South and nor do we benefit from the extra money per head given to Scotland.

I have this feeling that many Scots just hate the Tories and all the rhetoric come from that. It is an emotional response that is not shared by the majority of Scots who can rise above it.

The South is not necessarily richer than the North!

The amount of times you hear that.

The south is not just London.

London, Paris, Berlin, you name any capital it will naturally be where 'the money is', 'where the elite function', that's just the way of it.

If Scotland leaves the United Kingdom eventually all ills will fall squarely on the shoulders of the Scottish Parliament and Edinburgh will probably receive the same comments as Westminster and London do , maybe it happens already. What goes around comes round.

The latter point of saying if Scotland goes Independent then it will only be able to blame it's own Parliament is one I am happy to go along with. It may be successful , who knows.

Do I want the break up of the United Kingdom , No, because I think the UK is better together but it is up to the people of Scotland to choose their destiny, as with all Referendums!

What concerns me is the rhetoric and once the nastiness gets out of the bottle it is very difficult to put it back and when you see it come from nations that have fought together, worked together, have a mutual love and respect for each other it makes it a very difficult thing to believe could ever happen but I think it will. Geographically obviously we share borders and I just hope for all our sakes if and when the parting comes I hope it will be amicable but I suspect that will prove difficult sadly.

A new chapter in history looms large and I don't particularly like it.

Beam

"I have this feeling that many Scots just hate the Tories and all the rhetoric come from that."

I think the ' hatred ' of the Tories is patently obvious, you only have to listen to the SNP MP's to know that.

My view is that is the 'facilitator' for the SNP to get the nationalist rhetoric going but in truth the SNP do not/did not stop wanting Independence when Labour were in power.

That's why I say I will be happy for the Scottish Politicians and Holyrood to take the full weight of governing Scotland on it's own shoulders. Not because I think it will fail , I would wish Scotland well if Independence comes.

Going back to the 'hatred' of the Tories I am tired of the poisonous rhetoric that is setting one nation against another and for that to slow down it will take the SNP to succeed in it's goal but I just wish Independence was not based on 'hatred' but economics and the desire to govern our own countries not as part of a Union.

Does this hatred go back to Culloden? I would really like to understand this problem n the SNP.

No, it goes back much further than Culloden! Edward 1st would be a good starting point (The Hammer of the Scots). BUT, none of us can 're-write history and none of us alive today can be held responsible for the actions of our forebears; eg. modern Germans cannot possibly be held accountable for the actions of their Nazi forebears.

The Celtic parts of Britain have long memories - Scotland, Ireland, Wales.

'Europe' does not, in reality, govern Scotland or any other part of the UK, to the extent that Westminster does. 'Europe' does not set UK taxes, nor is it responsible for distribution of wealth or resources within the UK. 'Europe' does more for poorer parts of the UK than Westminster does - as people are about to find out.

You're right of course, daphnedill.

But at least we can fight it out amongst ourselves once out of the EU, and this and subsequent governments will actually have to listen to the people instead of relying on Brussels to dole out the cash (most of which we've already paid to them anyway).

This is so difficult for me , I want Scotland to stay in the UK . As a Celt it is difficult to explain why there is this problem . Many Irish cannot forgive the Irish famine yet it is history now. I cannot forget the flooding of Capel Celyn and this is not history I campaigned there there. So much harm done. I have no problem with the English , no one today is responsible for the cruelty of the past . Possibly the English have never had to fight for England to have rights and so this makes it difficult for them to understand . And there are still some English who do think they are superior to the celts which doesn't help. Anyway this is not to start a disagreement on past cruelty , just trying to explain why some celts feel as they do.

Where do you ever draw the line though Anniebach? Why do some people continue to hold a grudge over things that might have happened generations ago?

You are right ab, the English haven't had to fight an invader since 1066! and I think this has, combined with being the largest country, over the centuries created an air of superiority over the other three countries, which isn't, to say the least,at all helpful. This, despite being English,is a point I am perfectly willing to acknowledge. But, as we all agree, I think, the past although not forgotten, has to be moved on from in order to create a better tomorrow, which, imo is that the UK stays together warts and all! (despite what my previous posts would lead you to believe!!!!)

I think Wee Nicky's latest broadside is to hit the Union while it is preoccupied with Brexit. Westminster has sent emissaries to placate and offer something or other. We shall see. I think her personal hatred of the Tories is almost palpable and therefore I do not find her altogether a good spokesperson for the Scottish Nation. We need Gordon Brown again! At least he had a sensible appraisal of the Union.

Great suggestion. Bring back Gordon Brown!!

Niggly, I agree we cannot live in the past and I as a Celt want the four countries to stay in the UK. Wales is a poor country, I do at times wonder if I would support it standing alone if it wasn't so poor but no, just equality for the four countries please

I am not comfortable listening to Nicola ?

Annie I totally support equality for all four countries. We are all as important as each other absolutely no doubt in my mind about that.
As regard to Nicola, I don't know what to make of it all, but for sure she's beginning to make me nervous, and I'm not a Scot!!!!!

Niggly, same for me, when Nicola crowed she had been voted into her position May hadn't I felt really uncomfortable

beammeupscottie No the hatred goes back to Margaret Thatcher and the introduction of the poll tax. A fair few of young Scots are too drunk on buckfast or out of their heads on drugs to understand history

The Celtic parts of Britain have long memories - Scotland, Ireland, Wales.

Elegran you forgot the Isle of Man & Cornwall!

I am a British Scot and having lived Scotland, Northern Ireland and England it would break my heart to see the United Kingdom broken up.We should all be proud and celebrate these wonderful lands.Yes there has been past hurts but in the words of Disney, Let it go

The SNP MPs at Westminster are always angry it must be so wearying for them. I'm never sure where their hatred comes from.
It's a pity Ruth Davison (Scottish Tory leader) is not a Westminster MP - she's bright, articulate, positive, cheerful & inclusive - and no, I'm not a Tory - I just appreciate a good, thoughtful, talented politician.

Voting against the past 300 years is pointless. We need to look to the future and to my mind that lies in sustaining the UK. Old grudges - however far back they go - are no cause to separate now. They just fuel the kind of hatred and violence we saw in Northern Ireland. Please don't let Scotland make the same mistake!!

It is such a lovely Country with sensible and clever people being taken over by the extremists. Shame on you Wee Nicky.

You might like to know that the brilliant "Tales of Para Handy" can be bought from the BBC Store. They are my comfort viewing, as as the stories free from Kindle. Mind you, I love Gregor Fisher (desperate, I know).

Beammus your headlines didn't go as far as saying that polls suggest that 47% want to remain part of the UK, 41% do not and 12% don't know (or don't care two hoots!)