English Scots for YES

roses, I think we just have to accept that the left wing on here loathe and detest this country, and its useless trying to have reasonable conversation with them. They actually hope and probably pray that this country will tumble into chaos and bankruptcy, they won't accept for a moment that other European countries also had colonies and that Spain is actually illegally occupying land that it has no right to, but who cares about that, it's only the wicked English who hijacked other people's land and we must all be punished for that for ever! The fact that Gibraltar was ceded to Britain in a legal treaty is of course neither here nor there, we're a wicked cesspit of a country that should be dragged into the gutter as soon as possible. Why these people live in such a vile country is a bit of a mystery but only they know that. As for sacking the government!! Who would you put in its place? Dear old Jeremy and co,even you dj must be having a laugh!

Yes, I read that, Granny23.
Thank heavens for proper diplomacy from one country at least. It wants to stay a functioning part of the EU and not upset the other 26 members. Quite rational, really.
It might also want Gibraltar, but that's diplomacy for you.

I think Spain has shot itself in the foot big time with that statement, but no doubt they will do a bit of fudging ( sounds like they already are.)
I have always thought, that if the majority of the Scottish people want independence and vote that way, then fine, but it should not be about money ( not very Rob Roy) it should be about independence for it's own sake.
Of course, you can't help feeling sorry for the people in Scotland who really thought it was a once in a lifetime/ generation/lunchtime one off, because it clearly wasn't.They will now have to go through all the divisive stuff again, with bells on!

Yet another long repeated mantra, that Spain would block Scotland joining the EU bites the dust. From the Guardian.

Spain has said it would not veto an attempt by an independent Scotland to join the EU, in a boost to Nicola Sturgeon’s campaign for a second independence referendum and the clearest sign yet that Brexit has softened Madrid’s longstanding opposition.

Alfonso Dastis, the Spanish foreign minister, made it clear that the government would not block an independent Scotland’s EU hopes, although he stressed that Madrid would not welcome the disintegration of the UK. He also said Edinburgh would have to apply for membership, a process fraught with uncertainty that is likely to take several years. But asked directly whether Spain would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU, Dastis said: “No, we wouldn’t.” Madrid is keen not to fuel Catalonia’s desire for independence. “We don’t want it [Scottish independence] to happen,” he said. “But if it happens legally and constitutionally, we would not block it. We don’t encourage the breakup of any member states, because we think the future goes in a different direction.”

The change in tone could prove a significant boon to Scotland’s first minister, who has repeatedly demanded the right from Westminster to hold a second independence referendum before Brexit. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU during the referendum last year, but it has been believed Spain would block it from rejoining if independent from the UK

If the separatists ever got their way and took Scotland out of the UK it is quite likely that the people of Shetland would leave Scotland and take their oilfields with them.

Westminster always did say those subs would come in handy.

Scotland has the nuclear subs, too!

I was just thinking the same thing, there was a vote to stay part of the UK, but ww thinks that somehow, had it gone the other way, Westminster would have commandeered the oil fields. Do say it's a joke.

Well listening to todays garbled message from various ministers and ex ministers almost certainly. That would make an interesting scenario, would it count as a civil war?

durhamjen is simply stirring.
Thanks for the figures mcem and granny23 I had wondered if the age of the majority of people voting in a referendum for independence would swing it one way or the other.

WW, Westminster would have given it up if the independence referendum had gone the other way. Are you suggesting rUK would have given Scotland independence but sent the navy in to grab the oil fields? Or that the UK govt. would have ignored a vote for independence?

FN, glad to hear it.

Without the oil revenue the UK would definately be bankrupt. I really cant see Westminster giving it up.

Yes dj - understood why you asked.

If rUK were to say that it depends heavily on Scotland and would be bankrupt without it, Scots might think twice about leaving, I don't know.

As it is, though, Scots are repeatedly told that they are a drain on UK finances as they receive huge amounts of money to subsidise them.

As that is the official position, there's no reason for Scots to worry about how rUK would manage without them.

I would hope that rUK could manage on its own, but if the view is that it would really face bankruptcy without Scottish oil, is that what those who support Scottish independence want? To grab their oil and leave rUK bankrupt? And if rUK were to become bankrupt, what effect would that have on an independent Scotland that depends hugely on trade with the only country with which it shares a border? I heard Alex Salmond once say that on becoming independent Scotland with be rUKs "best friend". You surely don't bankrupt your best friends?

Interesting, Granny23. Nothing much to sell to the outside world any more without Scotland.

Thank you mcem. Just making sure you didn't get into trouble with the thread police.

gov.Scot webpage. Virtually exactly the same proportions as England.
Now who'd like to draw conclusions from those figures re polls or voting outcomes?

mcem's figures are correct (checked them on SG and Census websites).

Here is a link to a Bloomberg discussion re Brexit and Scotland where Jim Rodgers claims that RUK would be bankrupt without Scottish Oil.

www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-03-28/jim-rogers-asks-if-scotland-pushes-pound-to-0-80-video

But where did you get your figures from, mcem? You really need to let us know, otherwise you will be in trouble.

In 2015 18% of Scots were 65+. 65% were aged 16-65.

Granny23 do you know the age demographic in Scotland, are the older people ( over 50) in larger numbers than say 16-24 ?

You are right Gillybob about polls getting it wrong and this is just one poll with a small sample. However it does show a substantial majority backing the Scottish Government on this issue which is not the impression you would get here on Gransnet. BTW the data from the last Scottish Referendum shows that the group least likely to support Independence was 'older females'.

I must take a daunder to 'the other side' and see what Mumsnetters are saying.

I'm not sure that I would take too much notice of polls. They didn't exactly get it right the last few times did they? in fact how wrong can a poll actually be?