English Scots for YES

I don't consider myself to be English living in England, and I don't see what that has to do with it.
Well I think of myself as British first, but, if born in England, we are presumably counted as English as far as an independent Scotland would be concerned and would not just be able to go to live in Scotland without a visa especially if we were not filling a necessary job.

European is the only description that hasn't been tarnished by the hard right.
And that is because of the British and the freedoms they fought for [astonished]

I agree Nigglynellie that the PM is right in resisting a timetable for another referendum and there are many in the SNP who agree with her. But I would still like to hear a case for the calling of another referendum - given my questions about the context that I posted above (11.36). Or is there really no case? Would anyone like to put the counter argument? Paddyann? Granny23? Anyone???

I thought the SNP behaved quite well. Some very incisive questions which May ignored as she couldn't answer. She reminds me more amd more of a nanny telling recalcitrant children to behave.
May definitely said she would reach an agreement with the devolved nations before article 50 was triggered. It was right to point out that that had not happened.

Jalima, I think that if it is okay for the UK to split the EU, then it should be okay for Scotland to have a referendum on splitting the UK, particularly now the UK is leaving the EU. I don't consider myself to be English living in England, and I don't see what that has to do with it. I never identify as English; I am too ashamed of many who do. All names have been usurped,; Britain First, EDL, UKIP. European is the only description that hasn't been tarnished by the hard right.

If Scotland votes for independence it will also automatically take itself out of the EU! Unless it can virtually join the EU overnight, what in God's name will they do for money while they attempt to join? Also if they ever manage to join the EU they will, as I understand it have to adopt the euro! Why would they want do that? It could be years of nightmare for Scotland and risk that poor country ending up like Greece. Mrs May has a duty of care to protect Scotland from their seemingly paranoid government.

SNP behaving like spoilt kids in the HOC today what an embarrassment they are to themselves, Scotland and Parliament.

Sorry - I meant to say I'd love to hear comments on my post from people on this Forum who support another Scottish referendum.

Thank you very much Nigglynellie! I sometimes think I am going bonkers with all the frantic posturing that has been going on over Brexit and Indyref. I would love to hear from someone on this forum (Paddyann? Granny 23? etc) whether they think I have stated the options clearly or whether they have a different view and, if so, what their view is.

Excellent post Pollaidh. One I agree with wholeheartedly.

I can't see it happening either annie! NI would have to have a referendum, as would Eire, and I can't see the unionist going down that road without a battle especially the Orangemen!! I'm not so sure the South would want the North, warts and all anyway.

It will Not happen Niggly ,

If a further Independence Referendum for Scotland is to give people living here a chance to choose between two options (i.e. remain part of the UK but outwith EU or separate from the UK and remain part of the EU), then it stands to reason that each option should be stated factually and with clarity. Before voting, we would need to know (with a great deal of certainty):
1: what the final, fully ratified agreement between the EU and UK looks like and the consequences for Scotland. This cannot be known until all 27 countries have signed it.
2: the terms under which the EU would agree to Scotland being a member and the consequences of this for trade, free movement of people and currency in Scotland.
3: what viable proposition the Scottish Government have in the event of the EU refusing Scotland membership and the consequences of this.
I would like to know whether other people think this sounds reasonable or whether they have a different take on the purpose and context of a further meaningful referendum.

djen your posts seem to indicate that you are quite keen for Scotland to become independent and I am wondering why if you are English and live in England?
It doesn't seem to be a case of 'well, push off, we're fed up with you' which I heard someone say the other day in RL (Sturgeon was annoying her, as she does many of us).
Scotland may not be part of the EU anyway if that would be the attraction - and an English person may not get a visa to go and live in an independent Scotland especially a person who is retired and not filling an essential job.

If that is not your line of thought, apologies.

Just curious

In which case, NN we should be prepared for a fresh outbreak of 'The Troubles'; Northern Ireland no longer has a strongly pro Union government. Re-unification is looking very likely.

If NI wants to unite with the South I'm sure no one would stop them. I don't actually think that this is very likely bearing in mind the fierce loyalty the unionist of NI show towards the British Crown, the Orangemen come to mind!

Suggesting that NI should be joined with Eire shows no understanding of the people in NI .
The British Government would not stand in Scotlands way if they really do want a referendum ( yet again) but have the right as to the timing of it.

I doubt NI could easily unit with the South, The Troubles were not easy were they

Sturgeon and Salmon.
A right kettle of fish. Both wet behind the ears and as slippery.

They come across as a selfish, egotistic duo. They should be helping to galvanize the country not decide. They had their vote and lost.

The hatred in their voices and smirks of power make me grimace and worry for Scotland. The best time for Scotland will be together with the rest of the U.K.

Not united any more, though. That's just your wishful thinking. Northern Ireland could easily become united with Eire and separate from the mainland and stay in the EU.

Are you seriously suggesting that Wales and NI could support themselves independently?!!! We are a United Kingdom made up of four interconnected countries, the clue is in the word 'United'.

I'm all for independence and that means for all that want it. I believe that if Scotland wants to be Scotland and have their own laws and trade deals then so they should, Wales the same. We should all be free standing now if we want that.

Every country should now make their own laws and trade deals. England has no right to tell Scotland or Wales what the should do.

The same is right for England to get out of the EU.

Both sides of Brexit blame the other side for lying as well.

No doubt lies were told - mostly by the separatists. If that was a reason for a re-run we should certainly havd a re-run of the EU referendum. What I am afraid of is the destruction of our country.

-Varian, I've heard quite a few Scottish people say they were lied to at the independence referendum and would have voted differntly if they had known that the UK would leave the EU. That's a big difference. The Greens said they would not vote for another referendum if things stayed as they were. They haven't.
What are you frightened of? What's wrong with having another vote on what is known now?

DJ There is a problem, families were torn apart in 2014 and those wounds are still deep. Businesses are fed up with the uncertainty and many will not invest whilst the snp keep demanding.Even the only ardent snp supporter i know agree's that there shouldn't be another referendum vote until 2024

The Scottish Greens promised there would not be a second referendum in Scotland unless the Scottish people wanted it. They don't.

This is what we all expect from the single issue pressure group which calls itself the SNP. Their only aim is to destroy the UK.

I expected better from the Greens.