English Scots for YES

"I personally would be happy if the UK could be four separate countries each with their own parliament and raising their own taxes but together as a federation for stuff like defence and borders. "

Isn't that the sort of union we have just left, or are in the middle of leaving, Nfk?

Not quite! Only four countries. Ones which have been together for hundreds of years. Speak a common language. Have fought many wars all over the world - together. Not quite DJ.

That's why I said the sort of union, Nfk.
How has Northern Ireland fought with us for centuries? It's only been in existence for less than 100 years.

Westminster isn't England. London and Westminster are in a different country in the same way as the French consider Paris to be a different country. Scotland is not unique in feeling ruled by anonymous beings in a different country - but it has more self determination than any other part of the U.K. Certainly more self determination than most of England.

Fed up with splitting hairs with someone with tunnel vision. At least I have tried to see your point of view. You can only see the one. Off out to plant me lettuces.

Can't wait for the border to be this side of the tunnel.

Hate to disappoint you dj but plans are afoot to counter this eventuality should it arise. Felixstowe is the model being copied and should be in operation well before the finalisation of Brexit.

Sorry? Felixstowe was in UK last time I heard.

I haven't said it wasn't!! What I said was that the arrangements currently in place at Felixstowe will be copied and put into operation at other channel ports including the tunnel.

Who has said that, nn. Interesting in view of the fact that it's HMRC who've said it can't be done:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/31/uk-ports-struggling-fivefold-rise-customs-brexit-hmrc-mps-declaration

Apologies,got the wrong end of the stick there. You're talking about border control of people, not goods?

No, goods as well. I heard this on the radio a day or two ago. Felixstowe is an ultra modern port with goods processed electronically as they mostly come from other parts of the world. Not necessary for EU goods, but will be after Brexit, so the same electronic arrangements will be established in other channel ports especially Dover and the tunnel, preventing snarl ups.

Really? Can you give a link?

How does that stop refugees/asylum seekers coming through the tunnel on the back of a lorry and handing themselves over to customs this side of the tunnel?

As I said previously I heard it discussed on the radio.

How does it stop refugees/asylum seekers jumping on the back of a lorry and coming through the tunnel?

Hopefully there will be people at the beginning and end of the tunnel to stop this happening.

Why should there be people at the French side trying to stop refugees coming to the UK? We will no longer be part of the EU, so why should the French use their resources to help us?

Not being part of the EU doesn't me we don't work together, so not sure what you mean.

If they were going to France from England, surely we would have the job of not letting that happen either.

No one can possibly know what the French attitude will be, bearing in mind a new President will be in place and even you dj can't know who that will be or what their attitude will be. No doubt it will all be discussed and a solution arrived at which will be in the mutual interest of both parties as usually happens between us and France.

Yes, so let's just leave them to it, and not bother our silly little heads about it, shall we?
That's what they want.

FYI :

Today’s Survation poll shows that people in Scotland overwhelmingly back the SNP’s plans to give them a choice over their future.

61% of people think the Scottish Parliament should have the right to decide whether Scotland has a future referendum on independence, with 56% also believing that Holyrood should set the timescale for that to happen — a clear rejection of Tory attempts to prevent the people of Scotland having that choice.

The poll also reveals a clear majority think Westminster should not block another referendum if democratically agreed and voted for by the Scottish Parliament.

The poll has been published on the day the First Minister will write to the UK Government to begin discussions on a referendum.

Commenting on the poll, SNP Depute Leader Angus Robertson MP said:

“The message this sends to the UK Tory government is clear — if they try to block a referendum they will be acting against the wishes of the people of Scotland.

“People overwhelmingly want Holyrood, not Westminster, to make the decision to give people the choice over their future and when that choice should be offered to them. In short a referendum should be “Made in Scotland”.

“The Prime Minister is stuck on repeat with her ‘now is not the time’ refrain. We agree with that, people should be able to choose Scotland’s future in 18 months' time when the terms of the Brexit deal are known.

“Prolonging any attempt to stop people from having their say over their future is undemocratic, unsustainable and run the risk of public opinion in Scotland turning even more sharply against Prime Minister."

Sample size: 1,014

Fieldwork dates: 28th - 29th March 2017

Method: Scottish adults aged 16+ interviewed by telephone

Q1. Who do you think should have the right to decide if there should be a referendum in Scotland that would allow the people of Scotland to choose between Brexit and Independence? Should it be….

The Scottish Parliament 53%

The Westminster Parliament 35%

Don’t know 12%

Excluding Don’t know:

The Scottish Parliament 61%

The Westminster Parliament 39%

Q2. Who do you think should have the right to decide the timing of a referendum in Scotland that would allow the people of Scotland to choose between Brexit and Independence, if it were to happen? Should it be…

The Scottish Parliament 50%

The Westminster Parliament 39%

Don’t know 11%

Excluding Don’t know:

The Scottish Parliament 56%

The Westminster Parliament 44%

Q3. Do you think the Westminster Parliament should have the right to block a plan for a referendum in Scotland, even if it is agreed on and voted for by the Scottish Parliament?

Yes 39%

No 54%

Don’t know 7%

Excluding Don’t know:

Yes 42%

No 58%

That sounds hopeful, Granny23. Of course, May will ignore it, as she does anything that does not go along with her ideas.
Maybe you need a referendum to decide if you should have a referendum. I am sure someone like Mark Steel will have suggested that.

Here is an extract from Nicola Sturgeon's recent letter to Theresa May :
"I expressed my frustration on Monday that the process leading up to the invoking of Article 50 had failed to involve the devolved administrations in any meaningful way – a view that I know is shared by the First Minister of Wales.

Far from securing a UK wide approach ahead of invoking Article 50 – as you committed to do last July – the voices of the devolved administrations were largely ignored and all attempts at compromise rejected, in most cases with no prior consultation."
target59.wordpress.com/2017/03/31/letter-regarding-section-30-powers-from-fm-to-pm-in-full/

If Theresa May is so fond of the precious Union, you'd think she would at least have had a bit of discussion with all the countries involved.

May doesn't discuss anything, even with her three Brexiteers. You can tell by the way they often disagree with each other.