English Scots for YES

niggly you couldnt be more wrong, or blinkered

Sounded fine to me!

nigglynellie well said you took the words out of my mouth.

I haven't seen anything on this thread to suggest people think that, niggly.

Yes niggly I do know this, and I think it has become very obvious lately.Perhaps they would all like to move to Scotland ......although, would that be very fair to Scotland?

The divisions arent getting any better are they?

If GN is a microcosm of the UK -heaven help us!

what would you expect, a microcosm of Mars?

You make my point for me rose

Of course GN is a microcosm of the UK, what do you expect, that we would all be
Very left wing/EU loving/vegetarian/ etc etc.We are all different which makes a forum interesting, but just lately anti-British tones seem to have crept into some posts.
The article 50 thread is a case in point.It's disturbing.

Disturbing.

If Scotland does go ahead with another referendum, they will be seeing plenty of division there ( and they have only just recovered from the last one.)

Nice to know we have such influence on your thinking, roses?
Do you have nightmares about it?

Let's face it dj you did say that you couldn't wait till the border came back to this side of the channel, presumably in gleeful anticipation of the complete chaos this hopefully from your point of view, will cause! Hardly a positive sentiment!
Oh roses, poor Scotland, even I don't wish that on them!!!!!

Anti-British tone what on earth could be more anti-British and anti Liberal democracy than some of the rhetoric emanating from the right?

The fact that we are arguing for a a Britain that is inclusive, tolerant, fair and a strong liberal democracy shows both the remainers and the left wing feel very strongly about what we are loosing in this divisive time. Rhetoric that is both inflammatory and often far from the truth is feeding into the general malaise. It is horrible, and not a Britain that I recognise.

I would have nightmare about it if I thought it was a common thing durhamjen but fortunately, as it is only you and a handful on GN then I don't think I need worry about it at all.Nobody that I know thinks of themselves as European and not English or British as you have said that you do.
All this 'not a Britain that I regognise' stuff is eyewash.

As in,'you see what you want to see'.

If you only read one of my links make it this one:

www.gcat.org.uk/blog/?p=1496

I can totally sympathise with the Scots wanting their freedom. It's just exactly what we want - from Brussels. Living under the yoke of another power is frustrating and in the end untenable, so go for it Scotland, get your freedom, just as we intend to get ours!

Thanks for that G23. An excellent analytical article with no ranting and lots of answers to the many questions we are asking (and being asked).
I'd urge anyone with the slightest concern about the issue to read it.

I think Scotland separating from England has to be good news on both fronts and quite frankly if I were Mrs May I would have that referendum asap, send Scotland on their way and heave a sigh of relief that at last they are out of our hair and that we can get on with sorting Brexit in peace without their almost relentless whining! - bring it on PLEASE!!

And the oil nn?

Read most of that link but only agree with him on one thing, which I said already up page, and that is Scottish Independence shouldn't be based on the economy but from the heart and if enough Scottish people want to go it alone and break from the rest of the UK and do things entirely by themselves then so be it.Yes, things may be difficult for a time, and they only have a small population, but if the will is there......
I can't agree with him though on other issues such as thinking that hanging will be thought of as mainstream etc.and that the UK will become isolationist, there is no need for any extremes.Scotland would lose a lot of jobs from Faslane, and things would be moved from there into England, but as they say, it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good.Scotland would keep the oil because it would need it.
However... enough people have got to want this.If not, it's back to square one, but the SNP ( clue in the name) will keep pushing, because it is their whole purpose.
How many referendums will be enough?

I very rarely read links Granny23 but you did say "if you only read one of my links links, make it this one"

I picked out the following paragraph;

Specifically, I fear that we are going to become isolated from our neighbours, making it more difficult to travel in and work with Europe; that immigrants and other minorities are going to be made to feel increasingly unwelcome, no matter how much of a positive contribution they make

The author is using the brexit argument for why Scotland should breakaway from the rest of the UK in order to stay in the EU, but instead he is highlighting exactly why Scotland should stay within the UK.

Granny23, thanks for that link. It's exactly how I feel and I'm not even Scottish.

Gillybob, the rest of that paragraph is more important.

"But in any case, economics isn’t my primary motivation for supporting independence. For me, it’s more about what sort of country I want to live in and what I fear Brexit Britain is going to look like.......... that the Tories will use the turmoil of Brexit as an excuse to cosy up to Trump’s America as they busily dismantle the welfare state, the NHS, employment rights and hard-won social and environmental protections; that policies that were until recently considered as pretty far right (like bringing back the death penalty) will become mainstream."

The author wants to stay a part of a welcoming Europe. The UK left by Brexit will not be welcoming to anyone, and the author does not want to be always having to make excuses for something not voted for.

Interesting to see how many media people are changing their minds on Scotland having a second referendum.

theconversation.com/the-british-medias-progressives-are-coming-round-to-scottish-independence-75412