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English Scots for YES

(1001 Posts)
paddyann Sun 26-Feb-17 23:15:20

this weekend saw the Mayor of London Sadiq Khan and Jeremy Coorbyn both north of the border giving us "the facts" about Nationalism .They couldn't BE more wrong ,Scottish Nationalism ,unlike English Nationalism or Britnats is INCLUSIVE we dont care where you were born if you live here you're Scottish by Coice.Here is a link to what the group English scots for YES have to say about the interference from Mr Khan and Mr Corbyn ...it might surprise you.I have found a lot of people on here are very misinformed about Scotland and our efforts towards independence ,lets see if this helps .http://www.englishscotsforyes.org/2017/02/26/on-nationalism/
On Nationalism… – English Scots for YES
Many of you will have seen the comments of London’s Mayor Sadiq Khan over the weekend to Scottish Labour’s annual conference; many of you will share the outrage felt by our members, by supporters of Scottish independence, and indeed across the Scottish political spectrum at what we feel is a complet...
englishscotsforyes.org

Jalima Wed 15-Mar-17 21:14:23

Beammus your headlines didn't go as far as saying that polls suggest that 47% want to remain part of the UK, 41% do not and 12% don't know (or don't care two hoots!)

Beammeupscottie Wed 15-Mar-17 17:47:43

You might like to know that the brilliant "Tales of Para Handy" can be bought from the BBC Store. They are my comfort viewing, as as the stories free from Kindle. Mind you, I love Gregor Fisher (desperate, I know).

Beammeupscottie Wed 15-Mar-17 17:44:40

It is such a lovely Country with sensible and clever people being taken over by the extremists. Shame on you Wee Nicky.

Pollaidh Wed 15-Mar-17 17:39:03

Voting against the past 300 years is pointless. We need to look to the future and to my mind that lies in sustaining the UK. Old grudges - however far back they go - are no cause to separate now. They just fuel the kind of hatred and violence we saw in Northern Ireland. Please don't let Scotland make the same mistake!!

dbDB77 Wed 15-Mar-17 16:48:43

The SNP MPs at Westminster are always angry angry it must be so wearying for them. I'm never sure where their hatred comes from.
It's a pity Ruth Davison (Scottish Tory leader) is not a Westminster MP - she's bright, articulate, positive, cheerful & inclusive - and no, I'm not a Tory - I just appreciate a good, thoughtful, talented politician.

grannypiper Wed 15-Mar-17 16:39:07

I am a British Scot and having lived Scotland, Northern Ireland and England it would break my heart to see the United Kingdom broken up.We should all be proud and celebrate these wonderful lands.Yes there has been past hurts but in the words of Disney, Let it go

Riverwalk Wed 15-Mar-17 16:28:40

The Celtic parts of Britain have long memories - Scotland, Ireland, Wales.

Elegran you forgot the Isle of Man & Cornwall!

grannypiper Wed 15-Mar-17 16:22:02

beammeupscottie No the hatred goes back to Margaret Thatcher and the introduction of the poll tax. A fair few of young Scots are too drunk on buckfast or out of their heads on drugs to understand history

Anniebach Wed 15-Mar-17 15:54:22

Niggly, same for me, when Nicola crowed she had been voted into her position May hadn't I felt really uncomfortable

nigglynellie Wed 15-Mar-17 15:36:33

Annie I totally support equality for all four countries. We are all as important as each other absolutely no doubt in my mind about that.
As regard to Nicola, I don't know what to make of it all, but for sure she's beginning to make me nervous, and I'm not a Scot!!!!!

Anniebach Wed 15-Mar-17 15:27:19

Niggly, I agree we cannot live in the past and I as a Celt want the four countries to stay in the UK. Wales is a poor country, I do at times wonder if I would support it standing alone if it wasn't so poor but no, just equality for the four countries please smile

I am not comfortable listening to Nicola ?

Jane10 Wed 15-Mar-17 15:20:45

Great suggestion. Bring back Gordon Brown!!

Beammeupscottie Wed 15-Mar-17 15:16:24

I think Wee Nicky's latest broadside is to hit the Union while it is preoccupied with Brexit. Westminster has sent emissaries to placate and offer something or other. We shall see. I think her personal hatred of the Tories is almost palpable and therefore I do not find her altogether a good spokesperson for the Scottish Nation. We need Gordon Brown again! At least he had a sensible appraisal of the Union.

nigglynellie Wed 15-Mar-17 15:10:05

You are right ab, the English haven't had to fight an invader since 1066! and I think this has, combined with being the largest country, over the centuries created an air of superiority over the other three countries, which isn't, to say the least,at all helpful. This, despite being English,is a point I am perfectly willing to acknowledge. But, as we all agree, I think, the past although not forgotten, has to be moved on from in order to create a better tomorrow, which, imo is that the UK stays together warts and all! (despite what my previous posts would lead you to believe!!!!)

gillybob Wed 15-Mar-17 15:09:07

Where do you ever draw the line though Anniebach? Why do some people continue to hold a grudge over things that might have happened generations ago?

Anniebach Wed 15-Mar-17 14:55:18

This is so difficult for me , I want Scotland to stay in the UK . As a Celt it is difficult to explain why there is this problem . Many Irish cannot forgive the Irish famine yet it is history now. I cannot forget the flooding of Capel Celyn and this is not history I campaigned there there. So much harm done. I have no problem with the English , no one today is responsible for the cruelty of the past . Possibly the English have never had to fight for England to have rights and so this makes it difficult for them to understand . And there are still some English who do think they are superior to the celts which doesn't help. Anyway this is not to start a disagreement on past cruelty , just trying to explain why some celts feel as they do.

Ana Wed 15-Mar-17 14:52:54

You're right of course, daphnedill.

But at least we can fight it out amongst ourselves once out of the EU, and this and subsequent governments will actually have to listen to the people instead of relying on Brussels to dole out the cash (most of which we've already paid to them anyway).

daphnedill Wed 15-Mar-17 14:32:33

'Europe' does not, in reality, govern Scotland or any other part of the UK, to the extent that Westminster does. 'Europe' does not set UK taxes, nor is it responsible for distribution of wealth or resources within the UK. 'Europe' does more for poorer parts of the UK than Westminster does - as people are about to find out.

Elegran Wed 15-Mar-17 14:03:59

The Celtic parts of Britain have long memories - Scotland, Ireland, Wales.

nigglynellie Wed 15-Mar-17 13:53:00

No, it goes back much further than Culloden! Edward 1st would be a good starting point (The Hammer of the Scots). BUT, none of us can 're-write history and none of us alive today can be held responsible for the actions of our forebears; eg. modern Germans cannot possibly be held accountable for the actions of their Nazi forebears.

Beammeupscottie Wed 15-Mar-17 11:39:53

Does this hatred go back to Culloden? I would really like to understand this problem n the SNP.

POGS Wed 15-Mar-17 11:34:40

Beam

"I have this feeling that many Scots just hate the Tories and all the rhetoric come from that."

I think the ' hatred ' of the Tories is patently obvious, you only have to listen to the SNP MP's to know that.

My view is that is the 'facilitator' for the SNP to get the nationalist rhetoric going but in truth the SNP do not/did not stop wanting Independence when Labour were in power.

That's why I say I will be happy for the Scottish Politicians and Holyrood to take the full weight of governing Scotland on it's own shoulders. Not because I think it will fail , I would wish Scotland well if Independence comes.

Going back to the 'hatred' of the Tories I am tired of the poisonous rhetoric that is setting one nation against another and for that to slow down it will take the SNP to succeed in it's goal but I just wish Independence was not based on 'hatred' but economics and the desire to govern our own countries not as part of a Union.

POGS Wed 15-Mar-17 11:10:43

The South is not necessarily richer than the North!

The amount of times you hear that.

The south is not just London.

London, Paris, Berlin, you name any capital it will naturally be where 'the money is', 'where the elite function', that's just the way of it.

If Scotland leaves the United Kingdom eventually all ills will fall squarely on the shoulders of the Scottish Parliament and Edinburgh will probably receive the same comments as Westminster and London do , maybe it happens already. What goes around comes round.

The latter point of saying if Scotland goes Independent then it will only be able to blame it's own Parliament is one I am happy to go along with. It may be successful , who knows.

Do I want the break up of the United Kingdom , No, because I think the UK is better together but it is up to the people of Scotland to choose their destiny, as with all Referendums!

What concerns me is the rhetoric and once the nastiness gets out of the bottle it is very difficult to put it back and when you see it come from nations that have fought together, worked together, have a mutual love and respect for each other it makes it a very difficult thing to believe could ever happen but I think it will. Geographically obviously we share borders and I just hope for all our sakes if and when the parting comes I hope it will be amicable but I suspect that will prove difficult sadly.

A new chapter in history looms large and I don't particularly like it. sad

Beammeupscottie Wed 15-Mar-17 11:09:45

I have this feeling that many Scots just hate the Tories and all the rhetoric come from that. It is an emotional response that is not shared by the majority of Scots who can rise above it.

gillybob Wed 15-Mar-17 10:17:06

What puzzles me is why manysome of the Scottish people seem hell bent on ridding themselves of the "dreaded" English/British/UK government and yet are very happy to be governed by Europe.

Yes London is far richer than Scotland, in fact it is possibly far richer than the rest of the UK put together (happy to be corrected). As a Northerner I feel like we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. We do not benefit from the wealth of the South and nor do we benefit from the extra money per head given to Scotland.

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