English Scots for YES

Oh, come on, Fitzy! You can't have a country within a country. It's a logical impossibility.

Yes I can.

Mazie - Country definition " a nation with its own government occupying a particular territory".
Thee may be other definitions, but this one works for me, and I'm comfortable applying it to the devolved government territories and to the UK government territory as well. But if you prefer some other definition or want to interpret this one differently, that's fine by me.

Granny23, living in Scotland, does not like paying part of the cost of HS2 or renewal of trident (actually I don't want to pay for these either)

I do not currently live in Scotland and never wanted to pay for the 2014 independence referendum (£15.8m), Scottish parliament building (£414m), the Scottish police computer system which was scrapped (46m) or the 8.7m Edinburgh tram system (776m plus £200m for a 30 year loan plus £3.7m for an enquiry into cost escalation)

However, although I think it is very regrettable that so much taxpayers' money was wasted on all these projects, which certainly don't benefit me, I accept that we are all UK citizens and have to pay our share. We can't just cherrypick and chose to pay for what directly benefits us.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34157264

Sorry, the Edinburgh tram system is 8.7km long, not 8.7m. It's small, but not that small!

They're just devolved powers, Fitzy, not sovereign governments. As Varian makes clear in her post..

I would understand 'government' in your definition to mean 'sovereign' government.

Mazie, it's certainly strongly arguable that there really is no room in any true definition of country other than a territory run by a sovereign government. But I'm happy to work with a less restrictive interpretation in appropriate circumstances, namely where the history of the territory and the views of the population support that. I've no wish to push a restrictive definition down the throats of (for eg) Scots who treat Scotland as their country or anyone who refers to the UK as their country (of which I'm one).

Do you think Northern Ireland will also go the way of Scotland and ask for an independence vote?

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/british-government-realises-brexit-is-a-mistake-official-says-1.3048046

DJ I doubt I very much

Of course it won't!
NI will always want to be part of the UK because the alternative is to be joined with Eire.
So, no chance.

...and although Scotland ( SNP) want another referendum, it is by no means clear that the majority of people living in Scotland want independance, even now ( maybe especially now!)

You wish dj, but how on earth could NI manage as an independent country?! Are you seriously suggesting that the Orangemen/Unionists would be willing to join Eire? or break away from the UK. Surely all those Union Jacks and marches must tell you something?!!

Roses, "always" might be going a bit too far. There was a time when I didn't believe the terrorists would lay down their arms. Now the traditional Nationalist and Unionist votes are neck and neck, and the main UK opposition party is led by people who have made no secret of their support for the nationalist cause. I agree that independence or union with the South is not going to happen any time soon, but, as we've seen in so many places, things change in ways we would never have predicted.

"The British government is slowly realising Brexit is “an act of great self-harm” and that upcoming EU-UK negotiations must seek to limit the damage, the State’s top Brexit official has said.

The official, John Callinan, said on Thursday: “I see signs in the contacts that we’re having, both at EU level and with the UK, of a gradual realisation that Brexit in many ways is an act of great self-harm, and that the focus now is on minimising that self-harm.”

The remarks by Mr Callinan, the second secretary-general at the Department of the Taoiseach, were delivered at a Brexit seminar organised by the trade unions Impact and Siptu.

Mr Callinan also highlighted the existence of internal divisions on the British side just weeks out from the start of formal withdrawal negotiations with the EU, saying it was clear there was “no single, settled position” on Brexit in London.

“Even within the British government, there are very different views,” he said.

Mr Callinan, along with other Irish officials and Ministers, has been in regular contact with his British counterparts since the UK’s referendum on EU membership last June, in an effort to push key Dublin concerns to the top of the Brexit agenda."

www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_hard_borders_of_the_mind_brexit_northern_ireland_and_the_7273

Any attempts to reunite the NI with the South would, I'm afraid, be fraught with danger and not come about without a lot of heartache on all sides. The unionist simply wouldn't accept it lying down that's for sure.

Absolutely agree with that niggly.

The Good Friday agreement allows for it, without any outside impediment.

It is for the people of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a United Ireland, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland.

To achieve this peacefully would be well nigh impossible, Those Orangemen marches should tell you that!

So you are saying that nothing can change, are you?
Nobody would have thought that Martin McGuinness would have been a government leader, either.

I'm saying that tradition and history fiercly kept alive for over 300 years won't change that easily and not in the foreseeable future. As for Martin McGuiness, other so called terrorists have turned statesmen, Archbishop Makarious (sp) Nehru, Kenyatta, to name but a few, so nothing particularly extraordinary in that.

Fitzy yes, always can be a very long time, but it won't be happening any time soon.
Things can change durhamjen look at Brexit!
The Irish Times, which you quote from is an Eire newspaper, as they are pro EU and ( it has to be said) anti-British, how they slant their views is to be expected.
It will be a cold day in Hell when peope in NI happily give away their link with the UK.

It does not seem that the brexiteers or their supporters in the media, ever even considered to effect on NI or on Scotland. A lot of them epitomised the worst of the little Englanders.

I don't know what to say about the Welsh, recipients of so much help from the EU, who seemed to regard the referendum as some sort of opportunity for a "we don't like England, London, Westminster, wicked Tories" protest vote.

It will be a cold day in Hell when peope in NI happily give away their link with the UK.

It might well be, roses but if the majority vote to reunite with Eire the inhabitants of hell will have to get some warm clothing.

And if this stirs up more trouble with the Unionist Republican divide it will be unfortunate(disasterous) but will be a direct consequence of the Brexit vote.

I really don't understand why our happy brexiteers are so eager to force other people to stay in Unions that they don't want to be in..

I don't know what to say about the Welsh, recipients of so much help from the EU, who seemed to regard the referendum as some sort of opportunity for a "we don't like England, London, Westminster, wicked Tories" protest vote.
But that does not explain the Welsh returning seven members of UKIP to the Assembly, nothing to do with Westminster and the 'wicked Tories' from what I heard.
Some of the wicked Welsh Tory MPs campaigned for Brexit too apparently.