English Scots for YES

The 2010-2015 Con/LibDem coalition was the first peacetime coalition government and, although mistakes were certainly made, it did involve two parties having to make compromises, which is the way democracy works in most civilised countries. Both parties are UK wide parties which have their own policies for how to do the best for the whole country.

The threat of an SNP/Lab coalition caused such alarm outside of Scotland because the SNP, by its own admission, is determined to destroy the United Kingdom. A separatist party cannot be trusted to act in the best interests of the whole country.

That fear was whipped up by the Tory strategists who were already aggressively targeting LibDem seats. The Liberal Democrats knew that quite a lot of seats would be lost because of voters who didn't like the coalition, blamed the LibDems for the bad policies and never gave them credit for the good ones. Everything changed in the last week of the campaign when Sturgeon made that triumphalist statement.

I think another factor may have been the impression of the different personalities. Ed Milliband came across as weak and ineffectual, Nicola Sturgeon appeared bossy, controlling and sneery. That put people's backs up to such an extent that they voted Tory. The LibDems lost about two thirds of their votes, and most of their seats, including all sixteen seats in the southwest of England. Hence the unfettered right wing government we have now.

There was no fib. Why was it a fear whipped up by the Tories?

Nicola Sturgeon called for a 'Labour/SNP pact ' to keep the Tories out of government.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11501740/Nicola-Sturgeon-offers-Labour-pact-to-make-Ed-Miliband-PM.html

Nicola Sturgeon has made a direct offer to Ed Miliband to “join forces” to put him in Downing Street if Labour and the SNP together have more seats than the Tories after the general election.
The First Minister called on the Labour leader to match the SNP’s commitment to stopping a minority Conservative government “even getting off the ground” by bringing it down in a vote of confidence.

She rejected claims that voting SNP lets “the Tories in by the back door” by reducing the number of seats Labour holds in Scotland, arguing that the largest party does not have to form the next government
Instead, she said Mr Miliband could become Prime Minister if there are more “anti-Tory MPs” than Conservatives. If there are, she said the “only way the Tories get back into power is if Labour lets them back in.”
“If there is a hung parliament, SNP MPs will vote to stop a Tory Government even getting off the ground,” she said.
“I call on Labour today to match that pledge – to make clear that if Labour and the SNP combined have more seats than the Tories, they will join forces with us in a vote of confidence to lock David Cameron out of Downing Street,” she said.
“If Labour fails to make that commitment, the only conclusion people will draw is that Labour would rather have the Tories back in power than work with the SNP. And that will be the final nail in the political coffin of Scottish Labour.”
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www.ft.com/content/a30e915c-d568-11e4-bcc4-00144feab7de

" Nicola Sturgeon calls on Labour to form anti-Conservative pact ".
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www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/04/sturgeon-offers-new-deal-to-miliband

Scottish National party leader Nicola Sturgeon has offered to help make Ed Miliband the next prime minister even if Labour wins fewer seats than the Tories on 7 May. Her appeal comes as she angrily rejects claims that she thinks he is not up to the job.

In terms that will enrage many MPs, Sturgeon throws down the gauntlet to the Labour leader, saying: “If together our parties have the parliamentary numbers required after 7 May, and regardless of which is the biggest party, will he and Labour join with us in locking David Cameron out of Downing Street?”

So no it was not a Tory scare, it was not a fib , it was an offer of a 'pact between the SNP/Labour' delivered by her own mouth .

She will probably do the same with the next Labour Leader , whom ever he/she may be at the next General Election no doubt. Unless of course Scotland is an Independent Country prior to the next GE taking place.

The same David Cameron who bent over backwards to accommodate the 2014 referendum, even having it on the anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn in order to whip up maximum nationalistic fervour. What an awful woman she is, the Scots are welcome to her, you can only pity them.

The Tories have been pretty toxic in Scotland ever since the Thatcher era.

However the real enemy of the SNP is the Labour Party, who held sway for so many years and took the Scottish voters for granted. The SNP has converted many disillusioned ex-LP voters.

On the basis of "my enemy's enemy is my friend" the Tories and the SNP have helped each other.

Cameron bent over backwards to give the SNP help in 2014, as he felt sure they wouldn't actually win the referendum but giving them a boost would hurt the Labour Party. There is no doubt that Nicola Sturgeon returned the favour in 2015 when she threatened to "work with Labour to lock the Tories out of Downing Street for ever", thus ensuring a Tory majority.

I do not actually think there was a secret SNP/Tory conspiracy to do this. I subscribe more to the cock-up rather than conspiracy theory of history, but I may be wrong. Both these parties got what they wanted. Having a Tory government is much more helpful to the separatists as they can point to so many outrageous policies which actually damage everyone, but they only talk about the damage in Scotland, and exploit that to the max.

Whereas if Labour were in power with the SNP in Scotland they would be competing for the title of the most socialist socialists!

Another quick point : many posts ago, someone posted this link www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/its-time-snps-terrible-record-government-was-exposed

The article included this statement : "Between 2010 and 2013, school spending in Scotland fell by five per cent in real terms from 2010 to 2013 while, in England, it rose by three per cent in real terms between 2010 and 2015. Perhaps that explains why, after Easter, 17 schools in Edinburgh remained closed because of safety concerns, leaving pupils to be taught in other schools and temporary classrooms instead. "

Here is a link which explains that construction of the badly-built schools was finished in 2005: www.constructionenquirer.com/2016/04/08/construction-safety-fears-close-17-scottish-schools/
At that time SNP were not in power. Labour were in power in both the UK and Scottish governments.

This obvious inaccuracy causes one to have doubts about the rest of the article.

Interesting, FarNorth. I presume that was when schools were being built like hospitals under PFI, because the Tories ran down the school building programme. When the Tories came in in 2010, they stopped the BSF programme again.
They don't like spending on infrastructure.

Sorry, just read the second article. It was under PFI.
Nothing to do with the government. It's the builders who should be sued.

www.constructionenquirer.com/2017/04/13/construction-defects-found-at-more-scottish-schools/

The "fib" I meant was the one about the tail wagging the dog. I don't think that would have happened.

I believed at the time, and still do, that Nicola Sturgeon was making a genuine offer to the Labour party and its supporters, to block the Tories out. It seems she misjudged the political mood in England at the time.

SNP tail wagging Labour dog was the fear that many voters had. It may have been a "fib" by the Tory propagandists, but it resonated with a lot of voters. It worked for them .

Varian

Why was it Tory Propaganda when Nicola Sturgeon so clearly called for Labour/SNP pact to keep the Tories out of government.

I honestly do not intend any impoliteness but I simply don't follow your logic.

I think the suggested fib was not the anti-Tory coalition but the suggestion that the SNP would want to extract a price disproportionate to its size within that coalition. I can't see how anyone can call it a fib. It was a prediction which may well have proved to be correct - or incorrect.

Nicola Sturgeon said that the SNP would work with the Labour Party to lock the Tories out of Downing Street for ever. That is what she said. Not a fib.

The Tories encouraged voters to think that if that were to happen then Sturgeon and her separatist party, intent on breaking up the UK, would be calling the shots.

Perhaps the Tory propaganda involved some exageration of the threat, maybe a fib, but it was all speculation, scare tactics which worked.

Varian

I think voters were perfectly capable of understanding what Nicola Sturgeon was implying by suggesting a Labour/SNP pact for themselves.

It didn't require any Tory propaganda to understand what she meant. It was all of Sturgeons making.

pogs I think the majority of Scottish voters are perfectly capable of understanding Nicola Sturgeons favourite book is Grimms Fairytales.

Strange then that 'the vast majority' supported her Party at the ballot box.

No surprise that the SNP were willing to have a coalition with Labour but not the Conservatives, as it has been a long standing policy of the SNP to never enter a formal coalition with Tories at Local, Scottish or UK level

A shame that the Libdems did not think the same, Granny23. Then we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.

Granny23 I think you know that the "vast majority" of those who voted in the last Scottish parliament election did not actually support the SNP. It was actually less than half of those who turned out to vote.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2016/scotland/results

As the Scottish parliament has a type of electoral system which is approximately proportional, the SNP does not have a majority of seats there and had to rely on the Green Party to get through its recent vote for another breakaway referendum.

It doesn't matter that the SNP had to rely on the Green Party, providing they both thought the same on the referendum, does it?
I don't think the green party was doing a Libdem as they did in the 2010, playing both Labour and Tory off against each other, to see where they thought they could get the best deal.

dj In the 2010 GE no party gained enough seats to form a majority government. The Tory Party had the largest number of seats and fortunately the Liberal Democrats were willing to put country before party and work with them.

There were many LibDems, including me, who would rather have gone into a coalition with Labour, but the numbers simply did not add up. Had the Tories been forced to form a minority government, they would almost certainly have called another election shortly after, and won, because they were the only party with the funds to fight another election so soon.

The Liberal Democrats believe that we should have a proportional system, and that tends to lead to coalitions.

Looking back at the way the country was governed from 2010-2015 I am sure you will find plenty to criticise, and for much of it you may blame the LibDems, but I think that most moderate people, if they are honest, now realise how much better it was than the unfettered right wing government we have had since 2015.

As for the mess we're in now, you cannot possible say whether things might have been better or worse, but going back to the subject of Nicola Sturgeon, I firmly believe that her arrogance handed the Tories victory in 2015 and this view is shared by almost everyone I know in this part of the country.

Good post varian

Nicola Sturgeon has said today that Theresa May is putting the narrow interests of her party before the interests of the country.

For once, I agree with her, but when did Nicola Sturgeon ever fail to put the narrow interests of the SNP before the interests of the country?

She has always put her party's interests before any concern for the people of Scotland, let alone the interests of the whole of our country.

Well said Varian

True, but I wouldn't say ( for TMay) the narrow interests, as being able to confidently negotiate the terms of Brexit are more important than that.