The budget

Anniebach DH did make a name in the trade and spent more than enough time running his own businesses as well. Subbies may not have sick pay, holiday pay etc but benefit in other ways. There are very few S.E who have not benefited from C.O.D

Workers in the public services are certainly not 'looked after' - our teachers and NHS staff are on their knees. Local government is shedding jobs like a dog sheds hair. Their pensions are compromised and their contracts (especially those working in academies) are on a year-to-year basis.

I agree with much that has been said already, especially regarding free schools, but until we have a viable alternative we are stuck with this lot. However, must say that Corbyn is at last starting to speak up and taking his role as leader of the opposition more seriously. Thought his nice purple tie very appropriate.

I think you are missing the point chelseababy I don't doubt my DH could have claimed A small amount of sick pay over the years (actually he could have probably went onto permanent sick many years ago due to a serious illness but that's another story) but what good would that tiny amount of money do ? As his own employer he would effectively be paying himself. While the SE or the SME owner is off sick who is paying the rent, rates, electric,gas, suppliers bills, insurances, van payments, NI, employees wages, work place pensions (legal duty now) etc.?

We will have to agree to disagree there Anya

Agree with your last paragraph though until we have a viable alternative we are stuck with this lot it's just a shame that we don't .

Unless of course all of their work is carried out business to business grannypiper with all payments being made either by cheque or direct into a business bank account. Not all SE or small business's deal in cash you know!

Having said that I should be ashamed to say it but I envy those who do.

gilly i do understand that but the black economy in this country is worth a fortune. Small business's do have a hard time and i am suprised that we have so many left.

I know grannypiper

I know plenty of people from window cleaners, builders and hairdressers who only deal in cash. I wonder why?

ESA replaced incapacity benefit, it can take months to have an assessment.

Not much use if hit with a two week illness or injury which may take a month to heal

And ESA is not Sick Pay but designed to address the issue of long term inability to work. The fact that it is a fiasco as we have seen on other threads is just an additional buggeration.

I have just read that one of Tony Blair's cronies is behind this ridiculous hike in NI for the self employed. Feeling for DD and SIL who are both self employed and with a new baby.
( Daily Telegraph. Lord Matthew Taylor at his home in Roche, Cornwall. 12 August 2010.Matthew Taylor: drafted in - CREDIT: MARK SUTHERLAND / SWNS.COM)
"One of Tony Blair’s most senior policy advisers was named as an inspiration behind the controversial National Insurance changes.
Matthew Taylor, who headed No 10’s policy unit under the former PM and is advising the Government on employment reform, was name-checked in the Chancellor’s speech. He was said to believe that differences in taxation of employed and self-employed were a “key drive” behind the surge in changes to the workforce."

The fact that the self employed are not eligible for the same benefits seems to have escaped him and hthat for some people going self-employed may be the only alternative to unemployed

Lord Matthew Taylor is a Lib and was an MP, I think, are there two?

The fact that the self employed are not eligible for the same benefits seems to have escaped him and hthat for some people going self-employed may be the only alternative to unemployed

Which is exactly the reason we started our small business MawBroon.

I actually think that the NI should be equalised (I think people should go on paying it after state pension age too) but he has come at this backwards way on. I believe he has a year to get this through Parliament and it may be that he intends the other areas of false self-employment, ensuring the benefits needed by the self-employed are available, etc. Going for the worker first is, I think, his mistake.

I agree with you that NI should be equalised and that we should all go on paying it even after state pension age (if some of us ever reach it) based on income/earnings. The problem with the SE is that many people assume that the SE only deal in cash in a kind of half in the back pocket and half declared kind of way, which builds up an overall distrust. Although that may be true of some (mainly those working for Joe Public) there are many SE people who never see cash. I would have liked to see a budget to enable all small businesses to invest in securing the future and continuous employment of their workforce instead of hammering us from every angle.

Having been in the building trade for years I do know there was a time workers became self employed to pay less tax, to have cash in hand etc. It is recently that the unemployed have been forced to become SE

Ana - you are utterly and completely wrong about that thread you are referring to. I did not leave GN, I was away for a few days which I announced in advance, for reasons nothing to do with GN

And Ana I have no idea how many threads I have started but I know exactly the number of threads where I have criticised the OP for the title - a big fat zero

I agree with you gg that the issue needed addressing. There's a huge difference between sole traders and CEOs of companies who are 'self-employed' because it gives them tax advantages.

I've just read the IFS report on self-employment. One of the points they raise is that it encourages some employers to employ people on a bogus self-employed basis, because it saves them money and responsibility. I suspect there are other ways that could have been addressed.

There's also the issue of people who take dividends and pay pension contributions instead of taking income. Again, this should have been addressed in a different way.

Sole traders (like me) make a pittance and we do it, because it's the only alternative to unemployment. Ironically, if we were unemployed we would receive National Insurance credits automatically. The temptation is going to be not to declare self-employed income at all. Apparently (allegedly), there's going to be a separate bill to address the issue of people who only earn 'pocket money' from self-employment. We'll see!

It's ironic that the biggest backlash is coming from Conservative backbenchers. I assume it's because most small and medium business owners vote Conservative rather than any concern for JAMs.

The Conservatives will spin this as only affecting the better off, but that's not true - any more than the new grammar schools will be for the poor (but bright).

MB Where did you read that Matthew Taylor was one of Tony Blair's cronies. He was a LibDem MP until 2010. Surely the 'former PM' refers to David Cameron. According to Wiki, Taylor worked in the policy unit for the coalition government.

Forget the last post! There's another Matthew Taylor, who was head of Number 10's policy unit under Tony Blair. It's this Matthew Taylor (you were right MB) who was asked by Theresa May to look at employment practices.

www.thersa.org/about-us/media/2016/matthew-taylor-to-lead-independent-review-of-employment-practices-in-the-modern-economy

This is a preview of the Taylor Review by the (real) Matthew Taylor:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/30/rethink-work-taxes-review-modern-employment-gig-economy

www.indy100.com/article/nick-robinson-accidentally-philip-hammond-rude-word-spreadsheet-phill-7620121

Did anyone hear this this morning?

I wouldn't mind betting Nick Robinson is paid on a freelance basis.

PS. I've worked with a number of French colleagues who have had difficulty pronouncing 'worksheet'. The response from pupils has often been "Yeah! We think it's sh*t too!"

I wonder how many of the supporters of this policy change it is only right that the SE pay the same as employees, and besides most SE fiddle their tax.....pay their plumbers/builders/cleaners cash to save VAT?

As the director of a micro business, I only accept online payments and cheques, as a vat registered business and an honest person I am astounded by the number of potential clients who ask for a discount for cash. I point out, not always politely, that the VAT is not my money, and could they explain to me why I should commit a crime, a fraud, just to save them 20%?

Also, as an employer, I pay SSP to my employees, and this is not reimbursed or offfset against NIC payments, I cannot pay it to myself, so fail to see why I should pay the same NIC.

Surely the business pays the SSP Gill. Could the business choose to pay you too if you were sick?