Should the UK be more self-sufficient?

Thank you roses you are right. Pocket parks are nothing like municipal parks GracesGranMK2 We are fortunate to very close to two of those. Lovely ones too! with lakes, bandstands, play equipment, model trains the works. So our estate really didn't need these little pockets. They could have been easily divided up and out to very good use.

Jalima I wrote that we used to import butter from New Zealand before the EU.

We still import some butter from New Zealand, although it's no longer a major supplier. The UK imports 10,000 tonnes of butter from New Zealand, the Netherlands and Denmark. The UK exported 2,621 tonnes of butter in 2016, mainly to the EU.

We consume 185,000 tonnes of butter a year, so we actually produce most of it ourself.

dairy.ahdb.org.uk/market-information/processing-trade/imports-exports/uk-dairy-trade-balance/#.WMu9KrhRrRg

Fascinating stuff, huh! You can tell I'm bored.

PS. I doubt if many of us have time to grow our own veg. I had an allotment when I was unemployed. In the end, I had to give it up, because it took too much time to do my 'jobsearches' and cost me more than going to Tesco (especially if I buy 'yellow sticker' stuff).

They aren't Jelima but I really can't see how saying factually that you would only remember rationing from a child's point of view can be read as being sarcastic.

Anyway, and more to the point, do you really think we will be in that position post Brexit? Everyone said the 'experts' were exaggerating but obviously they were underestimating according to those who think we will be back to digging up lawns and parks. It really is an extreme view.

My local garden centre, just up the road, grows tons of fruit and veg, some of which you can pick yourself, but is always freshly dug and put for sale in their wonderful farm shop.They also look for any local produce to sell, such as cakes, pies, jams, and honey and chutneys.In fact, wherever we go we see similar farm shops both huge and tiny, which is marvellous.

I think we established that some foods will always have to be imported but it is not an euther/or situation - we, and in particular the supermarkets, could do a lot more to suppirt our own farmers and to reduce waste of perfectly good food before it even gets to the shops because the supermarkets reject it.

Those two for one offers or extra-cheap veg weeks? Not subsidised by your kind supermarkets! They pass the loss on to the farmers.

Yes, Jalima my DH remembers rationing well, being older than me.

Pocket Parks are not the same thing as municipal parks.There are usually lists of people waiting for a free allotment space, especially now that gardens ( new housing)
Are so small.Two different things here, as we will always be a nation that imports masses of food and goods, but growing your own,is really enjoyable, tastes better and saves money.There definitely seems to be more interest now in the 'food miles' idea.

True, but would you be happy for British workers to be paid the same wages as those in developing countries? It doesn't make sense. The UK makes much more money (and is better at producing) services, for which a high level of skill and education are needed.

Unfortunately it did come across as sarcastic though even if not intended to be.
As does your assumption that I don't remember much about rationing except from a child's point of view - children are not immune to what is discussed.

Yes, I was a child but I do remember rationing and DH definitely does, as did my DB, my mother, aunts etc and it was a topic of conversation as rationing did not end until about 1952 or 3.
My DB was 21 then

Only because we have been priced out of the market place daphnedill and can now longer manufacture/ produce very much competitively.

Dear me what a depressing view of life to come gillybob. Parks divided into allotments? Really?

Importing foodstuffs helps keep prices stable and shelves stocked when crops fail. If you look back at the history of farming, agricultural wages were always precarious. It wasn't until the Corn Laws were repealed and the UK started importing food on a major scale that life for 'ordinary people' started improving.

I don't want to return to a form of subsistence farming and, far from having too many people, I doubt if the country has enough people to do low paid, unskilled/semi-skilled work.

Sorry, but the door has well and truly been shut behind British production of food or anything else.

If every new build had to have a patch of outside space too Jalima we live in a fairly new build and I am fortunate to be one of the few houses with a garden (we waited for the plot specially) but most houses only have a tiny paved area in order to cram as many in as possible. There are several pocket parks dotted around which are lovely but some could have easily been divided into little allotments.

Agree about the solar panels Jalima. I have a vague memory that they looked at making this part of all new builds but that could be my imagination.

We need to be self sufficient in the way Norway is aiming to be. They invested national money very wisely early on (North sea oil etc) and now have a multi trillion dollar portfolio to keep the country going if/when oil goes. They have state owned hydro electricty providing cheap electricty for everyone. They are actively encouraging agriculture /farming to increase home production of food. They know they will alwys be dependent on imports but want to keep a tight balanceon import/export etc. They have had some very wise and shrewd politicians.

Jalima I doubt you can remember much about rationing except from a child's point of view. You would have to be in your 90s to be an adult and to know just how difficult feeding a family was. So, not sarcasm but a comment on someone making a very silly comparison.

We surely can't be expecting that our leaving the EU will put us in that same position as we were during the war when the Axis powers tried to starve us - I thought it was all going to be wonderful according to those on here who wanted out. Being personally self-sufficient is a choice but we will need to import just as we always have it just may cost us more.

Now - if every new-build had to have solar panels that would be a start!

When I go round the supermarket I always look at the country of origin and it is slightly depressing. I try to buy British and I contacted all the supermarkets to ask if their online shops could have all the home produce in one section. Some were helpful; others just said No.

It is perhaps a campaign that I should restart - maybe via change.org - what do folks think? Would you support such a petition?

Programmes like Countryfile and the Kate Humble one are great for raising awareness of the problems surrounding farmers in tough economic times. Unfortunately, they also highlight the divide between trendy foodstuffs that only the well off can afford and cheap staples stocked in supermarkets - vital for those on lower incomes.

Where we live, hundreds of acres of grade 1 arable land are covered in solar panels.

There's diversification for you.

Probably because foreign imports are subsidised and they are farming in this country at or below subsistence level, doing b&b to make ends meet.

Two posts on FB:

'In winter's chill or summer's heat a farmer works so the world can eat'

'Farming is not just a way of life - it keeps everybody alive'

I can recall in the nineties farmers launched a campaign against supermarkets, banners - BUY BRITISH. Many farmers do B&B, so many wives still at the cash and carry buying New Zealand Lamb, Danish Bacon etc .

Thank you Jalima and no, I don't remember the war, but my Grandad more or less kept his garden like an allotment, years after the war ended, because he realised how much cash they saved.

Growing your own organic fruit and veg is enjoyable, but for most people these days impractical.There do seem to be more small firms producing food/drink in the UK now, cheeses, artisan breads, wine and jams than were around say, 20 years ago, so I think the interest is there.

Why the sarcasm GGMKII ? I don't understand. It was a perfectly reasonable comment that rosesarered made

Some people on here may well remember the war (not saying that roses can ) and many of us certainly can remember rationing. DH tells me that his widowed mother was the only one in the road not to keep chickens during the war. My mum told me how the next door neighbour came and dug over our front garden so that she could plant potatoes (my father was away). The back garden was full of veg and my DB kept rabbits (for the pot).

No, we don't want to go back to those days but we should support our own farmers more before they give in, sell up or, worse, commit suicide.

It was heartening to see the young people on Kate Humble's recent programme trying to make a go of farming (more in the niche markets) and bringing new ideas to the world of farming.