Should the UK be more self-sufficient?

Chewy

DD PS having visited Manchester a number of times, I've never come across an abundance of street markets and greengrocers apart from in areas with a high concentration of people with Asian ancestry.

Some people just don't want to accept that they're wrong, do they? The market stalls in Piccadilly Gardens are there 6 days a week. They sell, amongst other things, fresh fruit and vegetables. I've stated, as a matter of fact, and not conjecture, that at least one of those stalls advertises that his produce is sourced from market gardens on the outskirts of Manchester. But, because DD has visited Manchester on a "number of occasions " but didn't managed to spot the stalls, does this mean that they are holograms and only if can see them. As for whether our market traders are of Asian ancestry, I really cannot see what that has to do with anything at all! Who cares where the market traders hail from? His produce is fresh, good quality and a good price. Is DD suggesting that market traders, with Asian ancestry sell inferior produce? I do hope not. Here in the NW we have loads of markets and the vast majority of them sell fruit, vegetables, meats and fish. And, shock horror..... some of the market traders are definitely of Asian heritage!

I agree Nfk

We should still be able to get seasonal workers, but they'll just need a work visa. No problem. That's what's meant by controlling our borders.

One reason that local people don't take the jobs is because they're not advertised here. The farmer goes straight to an agent in the Eastern European country. He gets cheap labour, but the labour still gets a higher rate than in the home country. So yes if the farmer had to pay UK rates the price of carrots (for example) will go up, but that might not be a bad thing. It may stop the appalling wastage.

Perhaps daphne has never been to a farm, it is sad but true that many people have no idea how or what food is produced here.

Salad vegetables cannot be grown in the UK, except under glass.

Have you never visited East Anglia, ddill?

There are thousands and thousands of acres devoted to salad crops during spring and summer so I presume your comment only referred to the winter months.

Plastic sheeting and fleece extends the growing season.

I realise about the carrot now dd

I didn't think the OP was advocating we all dig up our gardens if we have one and live The Good Life, rather that the UK as a whole becomes more self-sufficient.
Perhaps I should try growing my own pineapples and bananas in the conservatory!
I have given up with peppers (capsicum) having tried several times without success.

I am still puzzling over why it is less polluting to import from the Continent to London than from all the agricultural counties around London. When they get to Calais the huge Continental lorries still have to drive on British roads

And still wondering what is wrong with the humble carrot!

Well, the Dover to Calais crossing is the shortest distance to the Continent and nearest to London and last time I looked at a map I found Kent in between, which is an agricultural county.
However, produce generally goes through a wholesaler before reaching the markets in cities, market stall holders don't go round the farms picking up produce.
Except, of course, farm shops and farmers' markets which are more widespread now but more specialised than what most people want for their everyday shopping.

Nothing better to do? What could be better for you, in every way, than growing some veg or fruit . I accept that not everybody has the time or energy, but even growing a few lettuces and tomatoes, and planting some beans in a tub ( along with a couple of apple trees, planted in the garden and needing little maintenance) is a pleasure watching them grow, then eating them.

It's not me being 'stroppy' you're the one with the angry emojis!! it suits me if you take your bat and ball home in a sulk, as you are being illogical. How's 'nothing bette to spend money on' part of this discussion

No need to be so stroppy!

I think self-sufficiency is a fine idea for those with nothing better to do or spend their money on.

No further comment.

Ad nauseam ... iPad 'correcting' my Latin.

MORE

Nor shouting just emphais.

Yes, we've heard ad nausea about you and carrots

You've missed the point of more repeat more self-sufficient. Not completely just more. Get it?

And with solar panels farmers can grow more salad crops in winter.

Baffled now! We'd still be reliant on others for peppers, bananas, pineapples, salad crops, etc etc.

How? In theory, it would be great, but many of us don't have gardens. As a fairly strict low carber diabetic, I don't eat root vegetables. I eat most of my vegetables raw as salad. Salad vegetables cannot be grown in the UK, except under glass, which requires energy to heat in Winter months, so defeats the object of being self-sufficient.

You're missing the point. Who said we can't still import peppers or bananas or pineapples?

So DD you think that it's not worthwhile even trying to be more self-suficent in any way and we should just continue to be reliant on others for our basic needs.

OK - we get that.

I think I've read that article before Anya. I know farmers were divided on Brexit.

My point is that I really don't want to return to the lack of choice, which was available in the past. I remember when peppers were considered exotic!

Jalima That is a generalisation. In any case, city markets aren't 'local'. Think of the logistics involved feeding a city the size of London. Imported fuel will have been used for transportation. In some parts of the country, Dutch, Danish and French farms are nearer than UK farms and it's cheaper and less polluting to import.

PS. Having visited Manchester a number of times, I've never come across an abundance of street markets and greengrocers, apart from in the areas with a high concentration of people with Asian ancestry.

PPS. Not even Norfolk can grow vegetables and salad crops for twelve months of the year, without expensive and energy consuming polytunnels and greenhouses.

While this isn't another negative thread about the inevitable I suggest you read a more balanced article from the Spectator.

This is why British farmers were so divided on the EU.

Of course they'll still employ EU seasonal workers, no ifs or buts.

English farmers (sorry, don't know about other countries) received 3.1 billion Euros from the EU in 2015 and another 5.2 billion Euros for rural development projects over 2014-2020, much of which is allocated is allocated to measures to support the environment. That money will need to be replaced by the government,if farmers aren't to go bankrupt.

The red tape farmers complain about is the price they pay for the subsidies.

www.ft.com/content/2bcfea78-fffb-11e5-99cb-83242733f755

I'm all for buying local - but just a thought - if farmers increase production of fruit and veg where will they get the seasonal workers from? We aren't really self sufficient there. To attract local workers ( who maybe don't even exist in rural areas in large numbers) wages would have to rise considerably and even then they probably wouldn't get many takers- and consequently prices would go up. I saw a piece on Coutryfile where a farmer was saying he couldn't recruit enough seasonal workers for this summer (2017). Many U.K. Farmers are going to have to be given huge subsidies if they are to stay afloat. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the Brexit deal allows farmers to employ EU seasonal workers.