Care companies handing back contracts

At least LAs have decent terms and conditions and some kind of quality monitoring and training. Staff aren't treated like skivvies.

Even if private companies are used, LAs are still responsible for negotiating care packages and paying for them.

Essex County Council is planning to spend £524 million on social care for vulnerable adults in 2016/7, paid for mainly by Council Tax. Most of this is paid via private companies.

On its web page, the council boasts that it's making £106 million in savings for 2016/7. Some of this is being stripped from the adult social care budget.

Yes they do daphnedill but statistics show that public sector employees take more sick days/ time off than those in the private sector and then there is pensions etc. One of the reasons social services put the contracts out to tender in the first place .

So you pay peanuts and get monkeys!

Private companies still need to factor in sick pay and pensions, etc.

I worked as a care worker in the community for over 20 years on Exmoor and surrounding villages/towns, straying as far as Tiverton on occasion! I loved the job and got a lot of satisfaction from it in the belief that I was making a difference. However, over the years it changed beyond all recognition and although in the early days the pay was pretty dismal, we did get paid for mileage and for travel time between clients, also we were allowed enough time (1 hr) to bath, make the bed , breakfast, a quick tidy up, put on washing and so on. half an hour at lunch to make a proper (!) meal, clear it away, hang any washing etc, evening either 15 min pop in just to make sure all was well pills had been taken etc, or half hour if more help was needed. Part of our job was to sit and chat with the client about this and that over a cuppa leaving them feeling less isolated and the day a little shorter and less tedious. By the time I retired carers were becoming coming more and more rushed, with less and less time to give the same care, the cuppa and chat non existant, everything more and more scrutinised, travel time didn't exist, petrol allowance trimmed right back. In the end I was glad to leave as care seemed to have gone out of caring and by all accounts continues to do so.

Care providers can only pay their employees in line with what the LA pays them . Nothing to do with primates !

You have my utmost respect Niggly I looked after my grandma for years and I loved her so it was never "work" for me but to care for complete strangers is a gift .

That sounds wonderful nellie. Sad that increasing numbers of v old, plus more far-flung families, plus Tories who don't give a toss has led to the present state of affairs. And not due to get better any time soon.

No, they don't *gillybob. Some of them are very dodgy. They might pay minimum wage, but some of them claim their employees are self-employed, so don't pay NICs and wriggle out of statutory responsibilities. A court case ruled that travel time between clients is tax deductible, but some of these companies still don't pay a wage for the time, nor do they pay for enough time for care workers to do their job properly.

Care workers are human too and deserve to be treated fairly andprofessionally. They should be offered decent training and career progression. Most companies don't take this aspect seriously. They deserve sick pay, maternity pay and pension contributions, etc.

Treating them badly is just storing up problems somewhere else. When they get to pension age, they might have to rely on Pension Credit (paid for by the taxpayer) or they might have to rely on Tax Credits and Housing Benefit (also paid for by the taxpayer).

The overall result is that there armies of care workers who don't feel respected and it's no wonder that some of them will look for work in other sectors or do a botch job.

Nigglynellie, you and your colleagues enabled social work teams to arrange appropriate levels of quality care. We are all paying for a lesser service now, which ever department pays the bill. The discussion about combining health and social care was happening forty years ago, probably before then. It still is being discussed with no resolution in sight.
Daphne is right criticise the deterioration in service and poor working conditions. Private isn't always better, public isn't always worse. Good quality public services aren't inexpensive. We can afford to do better. The Netherlands, Germany and the Scandinavian countries do better and so should we.

When I first joined a Care Company, it had only just been privatised and there was no pension scheme, only the minimum sick pay and no holiday pay, so obviously not the overheads that are now rightly having to be observed. A lot of us were ladies with working husbands, so money wasn't a particular issue, although it was a vague grumble at times. We were fortunate in that we were paid time and a half on Saturdays, double time on Sundays and bank holidays, and time and a half between 7 in the evening and 7 the next morning. so I suppose it all came out in the wash so to speak. We all loved the job and the feeling that we were making a difference to vulnerable people's lives seemed to override other considerations.

nigglynellie I hope you don't think that I thought you are a monkey. I certainly don't. I worked in an old people's home for two months when I was a student and I realised that I didn't have the qualities to do that kind of work, so I respect people who do.

Care work has always been poorly paid and I think deserves more respect than it has. Care workers deserve to have all the rights other workers have, but private companies and agencies will do all they can to cut corners.

One of my sisters was an NHS district nursing manager before she was made redundant when social care was transferred to local authorities. At the same time, more residential care was transferred to the community. I remember my sister saying at the time that it would all end in tears, because LAs wouldn't be able to afford what was being planned. Not only that, but LAs didn't have the expertise to deal with the clients with more complex needs, who were being transferred from the NHS. My sister was right.

The government thought it would be saving money, but it hasn't worked out like that, which is why we're seeing the whole system collapsing.

Local authorities outsourced the work to private companies, who treated their staff worse than the NHS or LAs, but even they can't afford to prop up the current system. Privatisation and a belief in the "market" has been a disaster for staff and the people who rely on home care.

Oh no dd I certainly didn't think you were comparing me to a monkey, far from it. I do actually sadly agree with that sentiment!! I think the attitude to care has altered so much in the last 25 years, and maybe for me working in a tightly knit community where a lot of the carers knew the clients they were going to from when they were children, made the job more personal. Not me as I was a new kid on the block, but I was always made very welcome by the clients which helped to do a good job. We just had more time to help and to chat, bring shopping in, Dr's appointments etc, they were all part of the job. I loved it, they were happy days, but over the years, although the clients didn't alter the system became more regimented and difficult, and the caring seemed impersonal and was becoming just a job! Not what I was there for that's for sure!

That's the story I have from my sister. Her background was a nurse, who then specialised in mental health and district nursing. She used to love her job, because she felt that she made a difference to people's lives, even after she moved into management.

She saw everything change to tick boxes and saving money, even when the quality of care suffered.

After my sister was made redundant, she worked for a short time for a private company, but after a while couldn't square her conscience with what was going on. Staff were recruited on a minimum budget and there was no attempt to train them or nurture them. Clients received a worse service, because their care packages were subject to budget restraints.

Hmm...I meant constraints

I think it's the same throughout the health service, in fact I know it is. I view my own old age with slight trepidation to say the least!

Care workers may well have to rely on in-work benefits to make ends meet. Housing benefits, tax credits etc.

We have care workers coming in four times a day , they are just so helpful and caring , but rushed off their feet

and they shouldn't be, as that's when accidents happen and the poor client in some cases is left feeling that they are being a burden and any concerns they have simply won't be voiced as no one has time to listen! It's just not good to say the least!

17 year old carers are being used in our area,training is 4 day induction and they are expected to supervise medication..and sit in a house alone with a dead body whilst waiting for back up which can be an age coming.In our rural area care work is the major employer, people are pushed into this type if work through job centres with out any thoughts of aptitude or ability to do the job.
My 17 year old was expected to do this as a community walker covering a huge area from first call at 06.30 through to evening calls she would arrive home at 21.45 exhausted having been out all day in all weathers trying to meet timed appointments for supervising/giving medication 7 days a week on national minimum wage for a 17 year old currently app £3.75 an hour.Several times she walked to out of area clients to be told she wasnt required ..she wasnt paid for these calls.support was non existant , harassed supervisors where required to cover staff shortages and iften out of contact in situations that experience and knowledge where required and a responsiblity placed on young shoulders that put client and carer in situations that sometimes colud have had tragic consequences.
She has now returned to full time education. terrible exploitation for all concerned especialky as youngsters dont get adult rates of pay , the care company are cutting corners to make the business pay

Disgusting expecting 17 year old's to take such responsibility regardless of how much they are paid. Shocking in fact.

Would I have wanted a 17 year old to look after my grandma? Absolutely NOT.

I have to say that the company who provided home care to my grandma were fantastic. She was lovely but could be awkward if she wanted to be and fixate on silly little things, so I think it takes a certain, special kind of person to dot he job properly.

downtoearth, that is a truly shocking tale. Years ago new carers had to shadow an experienced carer for at least two weeks after training, just to get the gist of things. I can't believe that anyone could be expected to be thrown in the deep end in this way and cope satisfactorily. Caring is about personal care of course, but it is also about dealing sympathetically with frightened, awkward, cantankerous, lonely senior citizens. Suggesting baths when one is being fiercely resisted! 'Just see how we go' and hopefully a good result. Clients who won't let you in, even threatening to get the Police!!!! All time consuming but part of the job, and the feeling of satisfaction when you get an awkward clients confidence and good will makes it well worth while. Although I guess no one has time for any of that any more.

We as carers had lots of laughs and plenty of tears. One lady was convinced that her older brother was coming home on leave from the first world war! She made and remade the spare room bed, and dusted the room umpteen times in anticipation of this visit!! She was 88, and brother had been dead for many years, but she was convinced!! In the end she went into residential care as care in her home became too difficult. Would today's carer have time to listen or even have an opinion about such a case? Sadly it would appear not.

* Niggly* and Gilly I was horrified that E had to handle controlled medication, assist.with administering oxygen,weekends where worst as half the carers had weekends off and in her weekend on which started at 01.45 saturday and finished 22.00 sunday., she was hauled over the coals in a mix up when tea time and evening timed medication where given together after an afternoon carer arrived latefir the lunch dose.As a 64year old I wouldnt feel comfortable allowing the young ones to care for me or my husband especially with personal care. Calls where 15 minutes to include meds make light snack/ meal wash up and general duties iften sink of washing up from previous carer out of time left no time to make any difference to a lonely person at all

Started at 06.45 saturday

Definitely agree life experience required for this role niggly