How to vote tactically (spreadsheet)

I think you're right about your predicted results, roses and I expect May will claim she has the "will of the people" behind her to do what she wants, but she doesn't.

She has tried to frame this election as a second referendum, but it isn't. It would be naive to think that people won't be affected by other issues, such as Corbyn's unpopularity and people's concerns about so-called austerity. Our FPTP never produces an outright majority anyway.

Godwin's Law alert: Hitler did the same thing. Bfore 1933, when he seized power, the Nazis never achieved a majority in an election, which was why he started to introduce referendums, the so-called tyrannies of the majority.

What I would like to see is the negotiating team for Brexit being more transparent and accountable for each step. If people want the same as I do - and I believe millions do, even some Leavers - May's response will be that we had our vote and she's following the "will of the people". May will no doubt use this election as a justification to avoid another referendum when the deal has been negotiated.

Some philosophers have argued that the will of the people led to the French Revolution and association of freedom with obedience to the General Will allowed totalitarian leaders to defend oppression in the name of freedom, and made Rousseau (who argued for the idea) "one of the most sinister and formidable enemies of liberty in the whole history of human thought. Russian Communists, Hitler and Mussolini used the concept to justify what they were doing.

Good post Annie.

Whitewave,mi am not a Tory supporter but am against tactital voting

As someone who has worked with labour candidates knowing they will not win I still vote for them, they work hard, they represent the party they believe in, they know they don't have a chance of winning but they are willing to learn what it takes to put themselves forward for insults, mockery etc, i have never considered voting against them and this is what tactical voting is.

If it really was 14%, it did make a difference. It depends how close overall margins are, but it's reckoned that fewer than a million voters ever make a difference. My vote has never made a difference, which makes a mockery of democracy and there are millions of people in the same situation. I've never voted tactically, because I've never had the opportunity. I vote according to my opinion of the best candidate, just so that when I look at the totals, I can say to myself that the total for X party would have been one less without my vote.

As I wrote before, If I did have an opportunity to make a difference, I would vote to achieve what I would consider to be the best outcome. I would even have voted Conservative in 2015, if I'd lived in South Thanet just to deny Ukip and Farage a seat. If you look at the results and compare them with previous elections, it's clear that thousands of others did vote Conservative rather than their usual party.

I don't suppose anybody thinks Churchill had become a Communist-supporting Stalinist, when the UK fought on the same side as the Soviet Union in WW2. It was about supporting the least bad.

So for those who want the best Brexit deal which doesn't leave our country in a worse place than it is in now here are some ideas to assist the government in its negotiations.

What the next government needs under its belt when it goes to Brussels is the support and knowledge that it will be backed by its entire parliament representing the entire country.

In order to achieve this, parliament needs to ensure that our rights are not diminished by ensuring that that there will be real debate and open mindedness in the years ahead.

With the sure knowledge that it has parliamentary backing, it will present a really strong front to the EU negotiators, who will be far less likely to insist on compromise.

We can show our support for those willing to speak up and argue if they feel that what is being proposed will injure our country by joining "bestforBritain" campaign.
It is proposed that these candidates will be supported by the very voters who put them there, they will have the strength of the voter behind them.

Yet!

Not that anybody has asked me to apologise!

Fitzy

Of course it's entirely legitimate.

I don't feel the need to apologise for saying I find it none principled though and I don't care which party calls for it , which colour their Rosette

Each to his / her own.

People are given a vote to use as they wish, and to suggest it's wrong for tactical voters to encourage others to do likewise is ridiculous. It's a free country, a democracy, and all such tactics are entirely legitimate. But the tories still look like a shoe in.

I think only a small number really vote tactically ( overall) never enough to make a huge difference.I read it was around 14% at the last GE ( according to a You Gov poll.)
No doubt there will be another poll soon to ask that question.I think the Conservatives will do well, and the Lib Dems too, but Labour will perform poorly and UKIP will sink without trace.IMHO ......before somebody leaps in to ask if this is a 'fact'.

I haven't seen Ww telling people to do the same. All she's doing is putting forward an option and a rational argument as to the advantages.

People are free to do what they want. In any case, people have been using tactical voting for ages. It's quite obvious in marginal seats that turnout and voting patterns are quite different from safe seats.

An interesting but prohibitively expensive experiment would be to do a "mock" election run on PR principles. There would need to be about five candidates and people would vote for the candidate they genuinely thought was best.

The winning candidates would then have to sort it out amongst themselves about who could form a majority. I bet the results would be radically different from the results under FPTP.

It isn't throwing my vote away it is the absolute opposite.

My vote will hopefully put an end to the disaster that is the Tory government and their terrible policies. Why would I throw my vote away if I thought I could stop them, there is no rationality behind your argument. You are talking very tribally, which really is old fashioned.

Whitewave

I'm not patronising you.

I am pleased to hear you are voting Labour but that does not excuse you from telling others not to do the same.

Besides you are only voting Labour as you admit because you are presumably in a safe Labour Seat. You would not necessary vote Labour if you were in a Marginal or Tory held constituency, presumably you would throw your Labour vote away and give it to a rival to 'vote tactically'.

That's the point I am making!

Even if I knew my chosen candidate stood not a cat in hells chance of winning I would stick by my principal of voting for who I thought was the best candidate. I don't understand how simple / easy it is for others to vote for a candidate they don't believe in.

So the Tory supporting Grans like to suggest that to vote tactically is underhand and lacks courage.

So let's have a look at the way the Tories won the last election, something that one of them described as "a stealth win"

The following police have sent evidence to the CPS that indicate electoral fraud was committed by the Tory party.

Avon and Somerset
Cumbria
Derbyshire
Devon and Cornwall
Gloucester
Greater Manchester
Lincolnshire
The Met
Northamptonshire
Nottinghamshirwest Yorkshire
Staffordshire

We aren't suggesting fraud, unlike that allegedly committed by the Tory party, but using the democratic process to try to defeat a party who is apparently willing to do anything to win including fraud.

Of course he does , the 'left' are looking as if that's the only way they believe they can win!.

Johnson is not a Corbynista , he knows that luck will have to be on Labours side to win, it could do who knows? If a staunch Labour man like Alan Johnson can openly show he has no faith in a Labour win what does that say about the state of the party?.

Bloody hell I think I have more faith in Labour turning the vote round than Labour Activists.

I actually don't think the voter likes 'tactics'. I think they can see clearly through it. It could have a diverse effect, I hope it does a diverse effect.

As he cuts and runs

Alan Johnson thinks a coalition of the broad left is a good idea.

If you are talking to me pogs then I will make it as clear as I can without being patronising.

So

I shall vote Labour because I expect them to get in, in my constituency.

Next door constituency I would hope people will vote Green because they have a sitting Green MP. My sister and Mother vote Lib dem as they always come second to the Tories, but given the opportunity they would vote Labour. My son will do the same but would vote Green as would my daughter.

If I lived in a Tory marginal, I would vote for the party that came second, or who stood a good chance of defeating the Tories.

I can live with Green policies as well as Labour and Liberal, but definately not Tory or UKIP. Tory policies are bringing this country to its knees in public life.

Ooh, POGS, don't go accusing whitewave of being a Labour supporter - she doesn't like to be labelled...

daphnedil



" Not going to be drawn into childish squabbles."

Do you have that ready to cut and paste, you say it often when your views are challenged.

Would corbynites please explain why if he is so in tune with the public do they need to vote tactically to get the Tories out, isn't this what Cirbyn was elected to do?

There you go again, reasons why not to vote Tory but can't support your own party because they are weak, you don't have the courage to believe the voter agrees with you. If you did you will be telling them to vote for your Party and another Party is NOT worth voting for.

Having watched and read posts for years posters have 'told ' others how to vote, which party to vote for , some change their mind on a regular basis and has been duly noted.

Those same posters are now saying "Forget what I have been posting, which Party I support to the enth degree, my chosen party is rubbish so we must forge an alliance to win". What does that say? To you it makes sense , to others it says don't you dare have the cheek to ' tell ' anybody to do something you don't have the b---s to do yourself.

How do you know that your candidate 'may'not have broke through and won the place of being an MP ? You never game him / her the chance you took away hope your candidate may have had and gave it to a rival.

If your 'tacticallly voted' candidate wins , say a Lib Dem and you would have voted Labour, do you honestly believe that it will all peace , light and brotherhood in Westminster.

Your aim is for coalition of the left / a hung parliament possibly but they will soon be ripping each other apart. After all they won't be able to blame the Conservatives any more, the 'focus of hate ' will have to transfer to somebody new. That I can't wait to see.

Thanks dd wish I had more computer skills. I've bunged in 5 quid

Making it personal gets us absolutely nowhere. The most productive is to address policies, because that is what matters to us all.

This is Gina Miller's crowdfundingpage:

www.gofundme.com/whats-best-for-britain

It's raised over £250,000 of the £300,000 target.