May the Forth be with you

Thank God!

no dissent amongst my family and friends we agree to disagree though we never talk about politics when my daughters english in -laws are visiting as it "upsets " them..WHY ? I have no idea ,their son will still be married to a scot ,their grandaughter will still have english family as well as scottish and life will go on as before..if/when we get independence .There wont be passport controls and we'll still all have family in all parts of the British Isles....the ONLY difference will be our ability to vote any government OUT if they dont work for us,unlike now when the over 80% of English MP's makes that impossible .

Not a party member so not told what do at all! Voted for an excellent libdem councillor last week. Friends and family probably didn't. No big deal - no dissension here. Look hard enough and I'm sure you'll find it. Glad my family and friends aren't divided - maybe we're all a bit more tolearant of the views of others.

"No dissension"is the party line. Dissent is not permitted. My friends and relations do not agree. They are on opposite sides of a great divide.Perhaps the nationalist just speak to each other.

But then I only form a view by living here.

* There is no tolerance here.* Where?
Oddly enough there is no dissension here!!

I do not get my information primarily from the media Granny23 although there is a huge amount of reporting. Scarcely a day goes by without a photo of your leader in the national press (I mean UK national press, not "The National" which is just unadulterated SNP propaganda).

I form a view when I am in Scotland for work or pleasure and by speaking to friends and relations living in Scotland. The one thing which comes across loud and clear is that bitter divisions have been whipped up in recent years between the separatists and everyone else. This chasm is greater than that between left and right in politics and echoes the worst sectarian divisions I grew up with. There is no tolerance. It is all them and us.

My husband had an uncle who was a fanatical SNP supporter in Glasgow in the 1960s. We were very fond of him and spent many a happy hour arguing with him. He was Irish born and bred and actually had a good knowledge of history but his views were coloured by a visceral hatred of the English.

He would have been delighted at the progress the nationalists have made in recent years but I am not sure he would have been impressed by the shambolic Scottish government.

Er fact and figures from SNP sources!

No NFK. The Labour, Green and Independent Candidates are all firmly rooted in their local Communities and campaigned entirely on local issues. There were also some Liberal Candidates who were conspicuous by their absence both leafletwise and from the Hustings.

No point in arguing with you Varian as you prefer to swallow whole everything that the BBC reports and Unionist Press prints rather than believe actual facts and figures from official sources.

So how did the other parties play it G23? Was it only the SNP talking local for a local election?

I am no defender of the Tories, Granny23 but I think that you yourself have told us more than once that it is the core aim of the SNP to break away from the UK.

Ever since the "once in a lifetime" referendum of 2014, we have been told again and again that your party will carry on campaigning for yet another referendum. This agenda has caused such deep divisions in Scottish society that it has actually driven the Tory and Labour parties to work together rather have any truck with the nationalists.

Although you do a good job trying to whitewash the SNP's dreadful record in government, I think you know that this obsession with separatism has caused untold damage. All other issues are side-lined.

Nicola Sturgeon can talk the talk, she is good at getting votes, but she has proved to be unable to walk the walk- a politician has to be more than a slick saleswoman.

Sorry to contradict Varian but it was the Tories who turned these local elections into a Referendum against a 2nd referendum. Their one leaflet featured Ruth Davidson wanting to give Nichola a bloody nose with no mention whatsoever of their candidates names or local Policies. The Tories did gain seats mainly at the expense of Labour - their 'better together' bedfellows but failed to make any inroads into the SNP vote which actually rose.

The SNP were quite emphatic in their broadcasts and leaflets, that these Elections were about local services for local people. All our sitting SNP Councillors were returned - surely an endorsement of their hard work and competent management of the Council. I hope the 5 newly elected Tory Councillors are quick learners, as none of them has any previous experience on the Council nor it would seem any local knowledge as at least one spent an hour or more standing outside the wrong Polling Station, refusing to engage in conversation with the opposing activists, until they finally took pity and gave him directions to the two Stations which were actually in his ward, and another failed to realise that there were actually 4 villages, not just the two big ones, in the ward he was contesting until he was at the Count.

The first BBC TV shock reports of how these really poor run down areas of Glasgow (bringing forth visions of children running in slum streets in rages with no shoes) had the temerity to vote Conservative did make me pay attention for a couple of minutes. I mean how could they vote so outside their class! But I fear I no longer pay much regard to the main news. Its about as accurate as the weather forecast.

Worth saying twice varian!

Sorry to repeat my posting. I must have pressed the wrong button.

A Tory / Labour group running a Council may seem unlikely but the Nationalists have made their core aim of separatism the most important issue in Scotland. At least this unlikely alliance will concentrate on providing public services and not on the neverendum agenda of the SNP.

A Tory / Labour group running a Council may seem unlikely but the Nationalists have made their core aim of separatism the most important issue in Scotland. At least this unlikely alliance will concentrate on providing public services and not on the neverendum agenda of the SNP.

I think I'm very fortunate here. Our candidates were local people and, maybe because we live fairly well into the centre of our little town, we were leafleted by all and I saw all but the Green candidate out and about. All had the same local concerns (should the car parks continue to be free; planning permissions for a new development; etc) and ignored national party stuff. The same very active, popular chap got re-elected. He just happens to go under the LibDem banner, but the nice Conservative chap who's on lots of committees and the Lay reader Labour bloke weren't far behind. I suppose the labels did give an indication of how each candidate was likely to sort a particular problem, but it seemed mainly to be about who was likely to be most active and stand up for local concerns.

Excellent example here :

www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/05/astonishing-tory-ferguslie-park-super-triumph/

of the media's bias and spin

Facts are cheils that winna ding.

Despite media hype about the Tories the SNP WON the council elections ,with over 40% of the vote and more votes and seats than last time..the tories are still UNDER 24% thats LESS than they had when Thatcher was around and the press reported the figures as a "tory wipeout" so ,its very strange to hear that a number less than that "wipeout" is now claimed as a "surge" The BBC in particular was very vocal about this amazing turnaround the tories are having...whatever happened to the media presenting FACTS ? Support for the SNP is never reported in fact despite SNP being the largest party in many if not MOST councils all that was reported was the fact they hadn't got control of Glasgow!!

Mines a Prosecco too, if you are offering.

Fact is that both Labour and Tories hate the SNP more than each other. Why? - because as the SNP grew and grew it totally upset their cosy, status quo of 2 major parties taking turns to govern and strut their stuff on the world stage. When Labour abandoned their radical socialist position, in favour of a move to the centre ground, they also abandoned the ordinary working class folk who had been their strongest supporters. I think it took a while for these Labour voters to realise that their Loyalty to Labour was being taken for granted, they were only regarded as safe voting fodder, while their ever more elite leadership courted the rich and famous and racked up personal fortunes.

In Scotland, there was an ever growing, alternative party, which was, under pressure from its membership, steadily moving from the centre ground to the left and whose policies were based on what was in the best interests of ALL the people of Scotland. Many former or potential Labour supporters in particular the younger generation, have found a new home in the SNP family, some have shifted their allegiance to the smaller Indy supporting parties of the far left, some have swelled the ranks of the Greens. Scottish Labour's biggest mistake was joining forces with the Tories in the 'Better Together' Campaign. Now we are seeing middle class NEW Labour supporters slipping easily the short distance from Red Tory to Blue Tory.

Little wonder then that the, mainly elderly, remnant of Labour support are bitter and that the obvious route for ambitious, young, would be politicians is, no longer, a Labour Party internship. The Scottish Labour Party is in terminal decline, too far gone for the Corbyn effect to resuscitate it. They have become an irrelevance - the contest now is between - on the hard right The Brexiteer, Unionist Tories and on the Centre Left the SNP (who BTW won the Local Elections, with a higher percentage of 1st preferences, more votes, more Councillors, biggest group in most Councils, - whatever measure you care to use) If this was indeed a vote against a 2nd referendum as declared by Ruth Davidson then it was convincingly defeated.

I can't understand why the Labour councilors are more prepared to ally with the Tories than the SNP. Has it always been this way, Granny 23?

My Wee County, the smallest local Authority in Scotland has Elected 8 SNP, 5 Labour and 5 Tory Councillors. None of the Tories has any previous experience in Council and as the only leaflet we got from them was the nationwide one from Ruth Davidson, telling us to use this Local Election to give Nicola Sturgeon a bloody nose by vote against a 2nd referendum with no pictures or names of the Tory candidates names let alone their local polices.

The SNP have approached Labour offering a formal coalition or
informal agreement to work together for the good of the community. This approach has been summarily dismissed and Labour and the Tories are 'in talks'. Officially, ours is a 'Hung Council' but we all know it will become another unholy Labour/Tory coalition, with little progress in urgent matters as the 'partners, struggle to find common ground.

I expect that what I have written will be dismissed as 'sour grapes' by Grannypiper et al but I genuinely fear for local services, the 350 Council workers who will now face compulsory redundancies (a Labour/Tory policy, blocked by the SNP) and, if they stick to their election promises, cancellation of the Community Campus - 2 Primary Schools + Community facilities (funded almost entirely by the Scottish Government) in favour of retaining the existing 55 year old, crumbling Community Centre, which the Council cannot afford to refurbish and maintain.

Councils throughout Scotland are facing, at this time of cuts and austerity, the loss of experienced Councillors, no overall control, deals cobbled together behind closed doors and stagnation.

Wow is the word most in use in Scotland today. Glad my vote made a difference in South Ayrshire.

Voted for a mayor we neither want nor need. There was no box for 'No Mayor' ?