No more free school meals for youngest pupils.

Going to work sure beat staying at home tidying up everyone else's crap untidy rooms.

My mum and dad both worked shifts. Sometimes they clashed, so the four of us were home alone. I can remember pushing my sister in a pram to meet my mother from the hospital, so I must have been ten or eleven. This was ten o'clock at night.

Didn't we want something better for our own kids?
What happened to the extra money and leisure we were promised because of machines taking over the work?

I have my grandkids here at 8 am., take the youngest to school, pick her up at the end of the day.
Her parents would much rather work shorter hours, but they've both had less than a 1 percent pay rise since this government has been in power, so can't afford to work shorter hours. Their mother has two jobs. It's wrong.
Wrong to say it happens, too. We shouldn't be accepting that both parents have to work all the time, even when their kids are young.

Deeda did that ever happen? My dad left for work very early so had breakfast first, my mum worked all her life so was either getting ready or on her way out. My brother was at the grammar school and had to leave early as well (on his bike). I sometimes had breakfast on my own and left for school after everyone else because it was just around the corner.
My ex worked flexi time so DSs and he had breakfast after I had left. Later they went to childminder and had breakfast there.
Breakfast clubs would have been great.

It's like it's normal these days for both parents to work.

ps DH worked as well - had I had to leave for work at the same time as he did (7 am) breakfast clubs would have been a godsend for us.

dj everyone I know that is family, friends and neighbours all work with children. The cost of living is very high here in SE.

I went to work - I didn't realise it was something new. Somehow I managed to get breakfast down all the DC before we went out (even a cooked one sometimes!) but if parents have to be at work at a certain time a distance away from the DC's school, breakfast clubs are a wonderful idea.

For those who never saw Dominic Raab. I think he might have lost himself a few votes.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/29/tory-mp-dominic-raab-jeered-over-food-bank-comments

I agree with that, Deedaa. It's like it's normal these days for both parents to work.

Did anyone else see Dominic Raab saying this morning that people don't go to food banks because they are poor, but because they have a cashflow problem!
I can just see them turning up at their GPs saying they've got a cashflow problem.

Surely the sad thing is all those young children being shipped off to school for breakfast. Whatever happened to the days when the whole family sat and had breakfast together? Work has taken over our lives to such an extent now that children are just one more complication to be dealt with.

'What your post does show us that they don't want to spend the money on it, and neither do you.

That's it exactly DJ

What your post does is show that they don't want to spend the money on it, and neither do you. It doesn't discredit it at all. It's like Nice trying to work out whether cancer drugs are effective or not.
It's about cost effectiveness, not whether it works or not.

How does that discredit the trial in Durham, daphne?
Makes sense to trial in areas of poverty, don't you think?
"Wasn't able to pinpoint how these improvements came about".
Wow. Surely the fact that they did is what matters, not whether you can pinpoint exactly how it happened.
I don't fancy brain scans on all children to find out which bit of the brain improves after free school meals.

No free school meals where my DGC go to school but school lunches are 'shipped in' from a larger primary; some are hot, some cold. The menu is available online and they can choose in advance how many meals they would like (mix and match with packed lunches) so I think that cuts down on waste.
There is a free breakfast club which is popular, they use it very occasionally if the need arises.

This is an extract from one of the links I posted about the 2012 trial and rolling it out nationally:

Broadening the benefits?

The pilot found that Year 6 students in areas of universal provision made an additional two months’ progress over the course of two years relative to similar students in other areas. These are significant effects, roughly the same size as the benefits from national programmes such as the “literacy hour”. However, it’s far from certain that universal free school meals would be as effective if rolled out nationally.

One reason for caution is the difference between the pilot areas and the average English local authority. Both Newham and Durham are relatively disadvantaged. If pupils in better-off areas are more likely to pay for school meals or to have healthier packed lunches, the gains from making school lunches free to all students are likely to be smaller.

Further, while the pilot study found that universal free school meals improved test scores, it wasn’t able to pinpoint how these improvements came about. Evidence from other countries suggests that Without understanding what’s driving the headline academic gains, it’s difficult to know whether the relationship between free school meals and test scores would be the same in other areas with a different local context.

Rather than providing free school lunches for all children, policymakers wanting to tackle student hunger could support school breakfasts instead. IFS research has found that support for a one-year breakfast programme in disadvantaged schools delivered similar academic benefits to universal free school meal provision (though the gains were higher in Year 2 than Year 6). The breakfast clubs also significantly improved behaviour and concentration, and reduced absences – and did so at around one-tenth of the cost per pupil of universal free school meals.

Extending free school meals to all primary school children would cost around £950 million each year. It would not directly benefit the poorest children, who are already entitled to free lunches. While there is some evidence it might raise attainment overall, we don't understand how or why, and so the effect of extending this nationwide is uncertain. In the context of constrained public resources it is important to be much clearer about effectiveness before spending a large amount of money on a new universal entitlement.

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9202

Food has been served in what you describe as"prison trays" for at least 15 if not 20 years grannypiper so no need to be in a lunch hall at all recently. They are practical, enable even very young children to have choices and carry their own food and are long lasting. Plastic cups are in common use. My GCs use them. How does the sort of equipment used prevent it being relaxed?
It's relaxed because the children sit together, interact with each other, chat and eat as they do so. No-one is pressurising them to eat, although they are usually encouraged to do so. It is certainly more relaxed than some homes

The trial which you quoted is from 2012 and has been discredited. See the other links I've posted.

trisher i dont know when you were last in a lunchhall but a relaxed atmosphere it the last thing they are. The worst thing is the "prison trays" the children eat off of, segmented plastic trays with both courses piled on it and even worse plastic cups to drink from, what on earth happened to plates and glasses ?

One of the areas that the FSM was tried out was Durham.
Over two years it produced a difference of two months attainment on average, which was significant among those looking at the results.
So I am not sure how anyone can say it is not a good idea, unless it is in terms of costs.
Tories wouldn't like spending money in Labour areas.

Isn't it interesting that food becomes such a divisive subject? Of course this is exactly the situation in schools where lunch and what children eat is a cause of conflict and concern. Packed lunches vary tremendously, so do school lunches. Some children have very strange and restricted eating habits. Some parents pander to these some don't. The provision of a free school meal at least provides a well balanced meal to be eaten at a table with other children. For many children this is a new experience and this alone is a reason for doing it. Add to this the presentation of new foods and a balanced diet, eaten with others in a relaxed atmosphere and the basis of healthy eating habits can be established. Just as important as any other part of a child's education

Well if my wish to keep FSM for Key Stage 1 is 'twisted' in your opinion so be it. I have followed your increasingly hostile posts with interest DD and wondered at your opposition to such a simple measure.

Very few teachers I worked with over a long and FT career would have expressed themselves so vehemently on matters relating t children's welfare. I note you were a supply teacher

My DGC' packed lunches are a delight. They are not sweetly/chocolate biscuit fans but love carrot sticks and fruit. Eldest DGD has raisins as her treat. They love helping to construct make them and never ask for rubbish. One thing they insist on though is a fancy serviette ( of which I have a huge choice) Apparently they show them off

My DGC always complain about the quality of school meals at their primary and so more often than not they take a good quality packed lunch. If you get in first ( the youngest) you get a bit of a choice, second sitting still a bit of food left but not much of a choice and when the older children eventually get in there is nothing left. Eldest DGD has often gone with nothing except a dried up "ham" sandwich without the ham ( her words) and an apple . Not good enough.

When I worked in a school, many children arrived without having eaten breakfast,quite a few more had been given money to buy something on the way to school,needless to say they purchased what they wanted which in many cases was crisp & coke, (don't know how they could face that so early in the day?)

It's interesting that Mumsnet posters are overwhelmingly against universal free lunches.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2932454-Tories-going-to-axe-free-school-meals

The consensus, even among Labour supporters, seems to be that they're an inefficient use of resources.

I have seen school lunch boxes, packed by young secondary school children themselves, which contained only chocolate biscuits.