To sell antique ivory or ban it? Or, how to blacken a party by inuuendo.

My query about pianos was related to ethics, not legality.

not going to bring back etc!

There's nothing to stop you selling an old piano with ivory keys.It's not going to bring an Edwardian elephant back to life.I think that old ivory figurines etc netsuke and so on are still sold legally too.

BUT was it ethical? (As seems to be implied above)

Yes, a few years ago we sold an Edwardian age piano, people were queuing up to buy it, it was amazing.

Can you not sell an old piano?

Not that long...what about all the old ones?

Pianos have had synthetic keys for quite a while.

And I'm still wondering about pianos.

The way things are going, there will very likely come a time in the future (probably nearer than we think) when elephants are extinct anyway. It is not just poaching, there is the encroachment of humans planting crops on land where elephants live, and protecting them from being eaten, the building of political barriers across routes they have travelled for many centuries, the changes in climate turning large areas into desert, ancient waterholes drying up because the water has been tapped elsewere for crops to feed expanding human populations, and so on and so forth.

If/when that happens, the only physical evidence remaining of these magnificent beasts could be the beautiful things made in the past from their ivory. Perhaps these should not be destroyed, but put away for future generations, when an elephant is just a fabled beast like the dodo?

My mum was a governess in South Africa and the High Commissioner gave her an intricate ivory brooch with an elephant carved into it. I keep it in a drawer, but one day I will probably take a deep breath and throw it away. Someone gave me the address of a dealer in London but I haven't pursued that avenue yet.

Exactly Eloethan. There are still unscrupulous people who will work to make new ivovy look old etc. if there is money to be made. If there is no market for ivory there is no need to poach elephants.

On the face of it, I thought that it was a bit silly to ban the sale of old ivory but I have changed my mind. Those that know more about the trade have said that it is not possible to ensure that all ivory which is traded is old ivory.

Maria Mossman from Action for Elephants UK, said: “The crackdown on ivory sales announced by the government does not represent the total ban we are calling for. It simply tightens controls on the documentation of ivory for sale, however no mechanisms could ever ensure that such controls were met and enforced for every single piece of ivory sold in the UK. As long as a legal ivory trade is allowed to continue, illegal ivory will find its way on to the market – and the scourge of poaching will continue.”

Toothless?

Re banning the sale of any ivory, where does that leave pianos?

I agree Penstemmon although I am not a strong Conservative voter usually but certainly am for this GE and the last one. For the future it will depend on what happens to the Labour party ditto the Lib Dems.Who is leading them etc. And in what direction!
I just think all the pettyness around who votes for who and why ,( calling them heartless, no moral compass etc etc) both distracting and actually plain silly.It must just be social media, because I remember ( not all that long ago) that you voted, but accepted that your chosen party didn't get into power every time, and you didn't go around vilifying other people for choosing them.
Now it seems like a war!
Social media has many good points, but sometimes I think outweighed by the bad.

As a young and naive 23 year old teacher on a "sink" estate in Battersea, Sth London I was surprised to see so many local families voting Tory. When I asked one mum why she said " Always vote where the money is" When I pointed out that whilst the Tories politicians may have money they were not very keen to share it with the likes of me or her, she just shrugged.

Just for the sake of accuracy, paddyann, the £350million slogan was on the battle bus of the Leave campaign, aka UKIP.
Not the Conservatives, who campaigned to Remain.

roses you are obviously a strong Tory supporter as I am a strong Labour supporter. We are not likely to change one another's core values which drive our political affiliations.

However,like you I do find the petty 'point scoring' and personal insults annoying as they detract from the important issues.

The issue of ivory sales is an environmental issue and a financial one. There will be some folk who have a vested interest in not having a ban on selling ivory i.e. realising capital on their stock of ivory, trading in ivory etc.
My concern, as implied in my earlier post , is that if ivory becomes a new 'must have' in some circles it could lead to illegal 'new' ivory and an increase in poaching of an already depleting numbers of elephants. It is a shame that the original pledge is not being endorsed by all parties as it should not be a 'political' issue.

Pleased about that, Ginny.

Charity shops won't take ivory.

roses, perhaps we might be better doing so - it's the only way to explain it...

I have a couple of bits of ivory, glovestretchers and a page turner.
Nobody in my family wants them. I wouldn't give them to a charity shop as I wouldn't want anyone to profit from them.
I suppose I could find out if Beamish want them.

I was given some small beautiful ivory carvings by a friend many years ago I have no idea whether they were carved before the ban or after so they sit on a shelf gathering dust I don't particularly want to own them because of their connections with the dreadful ivory trade but they are too pretty and clever to be thrown away

Is this what it's come to on GN? Truly pathetic.